Kel Tec RFB .308 rifle

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wutitiz

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Mar 5, 2008
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I am really not much of a gun nut anymore--it's been quite a while since I have bought a new gun. However, I remember seeing a blurb about a new Kel Tec .308 forward-ejecting bullpup rifle some months ago that piqued my interest.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9Xqa2vwq60

I have always felt that longer barrel (at least 18") is a good idea for a .308 rifle, in order to attain the ballistic potential of the .308 cartridge. However, I also like the idea of a compact rifle, so the bullpup idea seems like a natural. The drawback of the bullpup, of course, is usual placement of the ejection port which makes it impossible to fire from the left shoulder. However, Kel Tec has obviated even that problem with its forward ejection.

I looked on the Kel Tec site today, and the only thing it says about the RFB is 'coming soon.' Anybody have any opinions or info about the RFB? When will it be available? Coming from Kel Tec, will it be a truly robust rifle suitable for social purposes, or will it be more in the class of wannabe plinker?
 
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The Aug/Sept issue of Special Weapons for Military and Police does a report on it. Should still be on the newstands. Naturally gun rag reports are almost always positive.

They claim is simple to disassemble with a picture of five major part groups.
Comes with no sights.
Barrel 18, 24, or 32 inch length
8.1 to 11.3 pounds
polymer stock
gas operated semi auto
parkerized finish
Accepts FAL mags (a big plus in my book).
5 way adjustable trigger
claimed full production by end of year
retail $2000 for 18 incher
Should be available in all the M16 calibers 6.5, 6.8 7.62x39, 5.45.

Doesn't read like they actually shot it..
 
Thanks, I'll look for a copy of that issue. $2000 is pricey but actually encouraging to me. My fear with Kel tec is that they would cut corners to bring the price point down and end up with something that is a nice design but less-than-nice in execution.
 
wutitiz said:
Thanks, I'll look for a copy of that issue. $2000 is pricey but actually encouraging to me. My fear with Kel tec is that they would cut corners to bring the price point down and end up with something that is a nice design but less-than-nice in execution.
Click to expand...

The spent a full page going through how the Kel-tec designer has been working on this his whole career. It would be foolish to cut corners now just to cause his baby to fail.
 
Rat Finkenstein said:
Yeah that thing better be badass or it will be a hard sell. (even then it will be)
Click to expand...

If it works right and doesn't "skimp" it sure could be bad ass. Basically since it ejects the round forward (from under the barrel if I understand it correctly) it would be completely ambidextrous which is always a major flaw of bullpups. FAL mags have a good reputation and were plentiful and cheap last time I heard. Perhaps we'll see.
 
Rat Finkenstein said:
Yeah that thing better be badass or it will be a hard sell. (even then it will be)
Click to expand...

my experience with kel tecs has been mixed. thier handguns leave quite a bit to be desired.

the rifle i shot (the one that folds in half) seemed decent. shot reliably and was accurate.

from the vid it seems the spent casings are gathered in a tube of some sort above the action, then are gravity ejected from the tube. odd design, and at first glance i dont care for it. this would be problematic shooting from any postition other than upright.

and yes, 2000.00 seems a bit pricey considering kel tec's previous models and price points.
 
Morimoto;

From I understand from the article, it is not gravity driven, so you could shoot upside down if you want...
 
Kel-Tec's reputation for poor reliability isn't deserved and does haunt them unfortunately. I have owned and still own Kel-Tec pistols and rifles and have always had nothing but total reliability with them. I still carry one everyday and another (P-11) occasionally, something I wouldn't do if I was worried about them functioning. Until I upgraded to the PF-9 my P-32 lived in my pocket daily. Every 3 months I would shoot the carry ammo in it and replace it with fresh, plus shoot another 50 rounds in practice. I would pull it from my pocket and shoot without doing anything to it and yes, the pocket lint would make a cloud with the first shot. No cleaning, no lube, and it never malfunctioned.

The above was to demonstrate Kel-Tec's reliability in my experience.

Now on the RFB...

I am lucky in that my gunshop was convenient to several writers. We would often receive firearms for them for testing and of course we would get to play with them as well. I have shot several bullpup designs including the Valmet M 82, the Norinco Type 86S Bullpup AK, the AWC G2, and others. Most I liked, they combine a carbine's short length with a rifle's longer barrel. They do take some getting used to, especially reloading quickly. One problem that is harder to get use to the gas blowback that occurs when the rifle cycles. This happen right next to your face, glasses are a must with a bullpup (they should be a must period) to prevent residue from ending up in your eyes. The larger the caliber the worse this problem can potentially be. Most of the ones I have shot have been reliable, accurate, easy to handle, and, yes, fun to shoot.

I am looking forward to the RFB being made available. I will give it serious consideration as the price is not bad considering what others sell for. Sadly it has been "coming soon" for some time now.
 
zenheretic said:
From I understand from the article, it is not gravity driven, so you could shoot upside down if you want...
Click to expand...

From the vid, they appear to be simply directed into a tube above the barrel, and each sucessive shell pushes against the last one, or, as can be seen with the second shooter, the bolt slamming forward also acts to push them towards the front... yes, I can see that it should work upside down, too...

However, while maybe a convenient sized package, the recoil looks wayyyyy worse than my CETME... For .308, I think I'll stick with the larger rifle... Now, maybe in 7.62x39 it might be nice...

And for $2000, I'll stick with my AR-10 and put an ACOG on it for that price...

Would like to try one, though, before passing a final judgement...
 
Thanks for all the replies--you guys are a wealth of info. I plan to go to Barnes & Noble tonight to see if I can pick up the magazine cited by zenheretic. The B&N, luckily in this case, tends to restock their mags with a turtle-like pace, so hopefully they'll still have it.
 
You can find a gun magazine in a Bellevue B&N? :confused: :eek:

Amazing!
 
Robert H said:
You can find a gun magazine in a Bellevue B&N? :confused: :eek:

Amazing!
Click to expand...

Hey, this is still Jennifer Dunn territory to a lot of us. Plus, at the Crossroads B&N, lots of recent immigrants over there. They're still operating under the conception that America is the land of the free, unlike the liberal natives.:)
 
"Kel-tec RFB rifle is gas-operated, using short-stroke gas piston located above the barrel. Gas system is fitted with manual gas regulator, located at the front of gas block. Bolt system is somewhat unusual, as the long bolt carrier has an inverted U-shaped cross-section, and runs above the barrel and ejection chute. The bolt is hinged to the rear of the carrier. Locking is achieved by tipping the rear of the bolt down, to engage locking recesses in barrel extension. Forward ejection system includes dual extractors / ejectors, pivotally attached at either side of the bolt. Upon final stage of the bolt opening movement, those extractors are cammed up, to bring the fired cartridge above the barrel and in line with ejection chute above it. Upon closing movement of the bolt, it strips the fresh cartridge from magazine and feeds it into the chamber, simultaneously pushing the fired case forward and into ejection chute. Upon final closing movement of the bolt ejectors are cammed down to release fired case and to grip on the base of the fresh cartridge in the chamber. Fired cases then remain in the ejection chute until manually shaken out of it or pushed out by subsequent cases. Special provisions are made to avoid empty cases bounced back from chute and into receiver. Bolt system features dual return spring installed on captive spring guides. Upon disassembly, bolt group along with recoil springs is removed from the gun as one unit. Charging handle is reciprocating and can be installed on either side of the gun."

As you can read there isn't really an ejection system other than gravity. A weak point I think because I can easily see a foreign object entering the ejection hole and blocking it thus tying up the rifle. Other than that I think it should be fine. Thought I would add a few pics so folks know what it looks like...it is a good looking rifle.

Shown with a folded FN/FAL Para
ZapSnap_995.png


Heavy barrel version
ZapSnap_996.png


Schematics
ZapSnap_997.png
 
Thanks for info & pics, Absintheur. I could see someone rigging a receptacle to hold spent shells if muddy or other harsh conditions were expected. In practice I don't see the ejection as a huge issue. Nothing is perfect--people have lived w/ M1A optics-mounting issues for years.

Overall I still like the idea. Years ago, maybe around 1992, there was a company that offered a bullpup conversion of the M1A. Gary Paul Johnston did a writeup of it and said that he bought one for himself. I remember salivating over it, but the the AWB came and it was no more. I don't know whether the company (AWC, I think) resumed producing them after 2004--I don't think so.
 
They didn't sadly enough, it was a very nice rifle. We got one in for...Frank James (I think) to evaluate and it was very, very nice and comfortable to shoot.

Original AWC G2A
AWCG2A.jpg


Today though there is an alternative, Short Rifles Stock Systems is offering a version of the stock to recreate the AWC rifle so if you have a M1A you can still have it in a bullpup design.
ma1bullpup.jpg
 
Thanks for that info, Absintheur. I will probably get one of those--didn't know it existed. I'm way behind the curve on gun stuff. I have read about the vltor stock which seems pretty good but a little heavy. Oh well, like I said, nothing's perfect. I have 3 M1A's---still my all time favorite (ATF).
 
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