Kerambits in Colorado?

[EdgeTim]

Hey guys I recently got one of Rich Derespinas amazing kerambits.

http://www.derespinaknives.com/

Its his model 10. Not sure on the exact specs, blade is under 3 inches, one sided sharp.

Legal to EDC it in colorado?

Thanks for your time gents.

Tim

 

[raindog101]

In a word: yes. Legal blade limit for concealed is 3.5". As far as I know, you're good. Don't think there are any specific restrictions on kerambits. You can google the Colorado Revised Statutes if you'd like to confirm this, which I recommend. It's good reading!

 

[R.W.Clark]

Here is the statute. According to Co. state law, a bladed object is not a knife if the blade is under 3.5 inches. I also included a section of case law.

Updated 12/16/2005

Colorado - Criminal Code Section 18-12-101. Definitions...
(e) "Gravity knife" means any knife that has a blade
released from the handle or sheath thereof by the force of
gravity or the application of centrifugal force, that when
released is locked into place by means of a button,
spring, lever, or other device... (f) "Knife" means any
dagger, dirk, knife, or stiletto with a blade over 3-1/2
inches in length, or any other dangerous instrument
capable of inflicting cutting, stabbing, or tearing
wounds, but does not include a hunting or fishing knife
carried for sports use. The issue that a knife is a
hunting or fishing knife must be raised as an affirmative
defense. (j) "Switchblade knife" means any knife, the
blade of which opens automatically by hand pressure
applied to a button, spring, or other device in its
handle... (a.3) "Ballistic knife" means any knife that has
a blade which is forcefully projected from the handle by
means of a spring-loaded device or explosive charge.


- 18-12-102. Possessing a dangerous or illegal weapon - affirmative defense.
(1) As used in this section, the term "dangerous weapon" means a firearm silencer, machine gun, short shotgun, short rifle, or ballistic knife.
(2) As used in this section, the term "illegal weapon" means a blackjack, gas gun, metallic knuckles, gravity knife, or switchblade knife.
(3) A person who knowingly possesses a dangerous weapon commits a class 5 felony. Each subsequent violation of this subsection (3) by the same person shall be a class 4 felony.
(4) A person who knowingly possesses an illegal weapon commits a class 1 misdemeanor.
(5) It shall be an affirmative defense to the charge of possessing a dangerous weapon, or to the charge of possessing an illegal weapon, that the person so accused was a peace officer or member of the armed forces of the United States or Colorado National Guard acting in the lawful discharge of his duties, or that said person has a valid permit and license for possession of such weapon.

- 18-12-105. Unlawfully carrying a concealed weapon - unlawful possession of weapons.

(1) A person commits a class 2 misdemeanor if such person knowingly and unlawfully:
(a) Carries a knife concealed on or about his or her person; or
(b) Carries a firearm concealed on or about his or her person; or
(c) Without legal authority, carries, brings, or has in such person's possession a firearm or any explosive, incendiary, or other dangerous device on the property of or within any building in which the chambers, galleries, or offices of the general assembly, or either house thereof, are located, or in which a legislative hearing or meeting is being or is to be conducted, or in which the official office of any member, officer, or employee of the general assembly is located.
(d) (Deleted 1993.)
(2) It shall not be an offense if the defendant was:
(a) A person in his or her own dwelling or place of business or on property owned or under his or her control at the time of the act of carrying; or
(b) A person in a private automobile or other private means of conveyance who carries a weapon for lawful protection of such person's or another's person or property while traveling; or
(c) A person who, at the time of carrying a concealed weapon, held a valid written permit to carry a concealed weapon issued pursuant to section 18-12-105.1, as it existed prior to its repeal, or, if the weapon involved was a handgun, held a valid permit to carry a concealed handgun or a temporary emergency permit issued pursuant to part 2 of this article; except that it shall be an offense under this section if the person was carrying a concealed handgun in violation of the provisions of section 18-12-214; or
(d) A peace officer, as described in section 16-2.5-101, C.R.S., when carrying a weapon in conformance with the policy of the employing agency as provided in section 16-2.5-101 (2), C.R.S.; or
(e) (Deleted 2003.)
(f) A United States probation officer or a United States pretrial services officer while on duty and serving in the state of Colorado under the authority of rules and regulations promulgated by the judicial conference of the United States.


- 18-12-105.5. Unlawfully carrying a weapon - unlawful possession of weapons - school, college, or university grounds.

(1) A person commits a class 6 felony if such person knowingly and unlawfully and without legal authority carries, brings, or has in such person's possession a deadly weapon as defined in section 18-1-901 (3) (e) in or on the real estate and all improvements erected thereon of any public or private elementary, middle, junior high, high, or vocational school or any public or private college, university, or seminary, except for the purpose of presenting an authorized public demonstration or exhibition pursuant to instruction in conjunction with an organized school or class, for the purpose of carrying out the necessary duties and functions of an employee of an educational institution that require the use of a deadly weapon, or for the purpose of participation in an authorized extracurricular activity or on an athletic team.
(2) (Deleted 2000.)
(3) It shall not be an offense under this section if:
(a) The weapon is unloaded and remains inside a motor vehicle while upon the real estate of any public or private college, university, or seminary; or
(b) The person is in that person's own dwelling or place of business or on property owned or under that person's control at the time of the act of carrying; or
(c) The person is in a private automobile or other private means of conveyance and is carrying a weapon for lawful protection of that person's or another's person or property while traveling; or
(d) The person, at the time of carrying a concealed weapon, held a valid written permit to carry a concealed weapon issued pursuant to section 18-12-105.1, as said section existed prior to its repeal; except that it shall be an offense under this section if the person was carrying a concealed handgun in violation of the provisions of section 18-12-214 (3); or
(d.5) The weapon involved was a handgun and the person held a valid permit to carry a concealed handgun or a temporary emergency permit issued pursuant to part 2 of this article; except that it shall be an offense under this section if the person was carrying a concealed handgun in violation of the provisions of section 18-12-214 (3); or
(e) The person is a peace officer, as described in section 16-2.5-101, C.R.S., when carrying a weapon in conformance with the policy of the employing agency as provided in section 16-2.5-101 (2), C.R.S.; or
(f) and (g) (Deleted 2003.)
(h) The person has possession of the weapon for use in an educational program approved by a school which program includes, but shall not be limited to, any course designed for the repair or maintenance of weapons.


18-12-105.5

Unless the prosecution can also establish that the person used or intended to use the knife as a weapon, a person cannot be prosecuted under subsection (1) for carrying a knife with a blade less than three and one-half inches in length on school grounds. Even though subsection (1) references the deadly weapons statute, that statute does not specifically define "knife". The term "knife" is, however, specifically limited to a weapon with a blade longer than three and one-half inches in length by § 18-12-101 (1), as applicable to this article. Thus, reading and harmonizing these provisions together, the plain language of both provisions establishes that, for purposes of this section, where the deadly weapon is a knife, it must qualify as a knife under § 18-12-101 (1)(f). People ex rel. J.W.T., 93 P.3d 580 (Colo. App. 2004).

 

[stabman]

If the cop wanted to be a dick, he could try to go under the "or any other dangerous instrument capable of inflicting cutting, stabbing, or tearing wounds" part, as it is not a regular hunting or fishing knife.
Just something to keep in mind.

 

[Reffy]

Just to affirm Stabman's Statement: This can very much be the case. A Kerambit has no other purpose than to injure someone, it is certainly not a box cutter. No matter what the law says, having a knife like that greatly increases your risk for being charged with something.
As always, weigh the risks and the benefits yourself.

 

[R.W.Clark]

There is some interesting parts to this law that require carefull reading.

The law lists several knives by type (ie dagger, dirk, stiletto) and then gives a size limit for other "knives". Then it says "other dangerous instrument". The wording of the phrase you lead one to believe that "other dangerous instrument" should mean anything other that a traditional knife. Co. State case law supports this by a case with involving a screw driver. Then in the same sentence exempts hunting and fishing knives .

I personally feel that this law is "un-constitutionally vague", however the states appeals court has already ruled that it is constitutional.

So, what we end up with is that any knife with a blade over 3.5 is illegal to carry concealed and then we have this huge blanket statement that covers everthing from forks to pencils to everything else.

With every object under the sun falling under the net of this law you have to ask yourself a simple question. What makes an otherwise normal object a "dangerous instrument"? The answer is its use or the intent of the person using it. So a pencil is a pencil is you are writting a note, but becomes a "dangerous instrument" if you are trying to poke someone in the eye with it. If they want to convict you for concealed carry of a pencil, they must prove that you intented to use it as a weapon.

The same is true with any knife not already listed by type and size. Ring handled knives (dispite popular modern myth) were not meant to be deadly weapons to be spun around like tiny lawn mower blades. The ring is meant to provide the user the ability to suspend the knife off the finger, by the ring, in order to allow the user to use thier hands for other work without setting the knife down.

It is all about intent. If you tell the officer that you have the knife for defensive purposes, it is a weapon. If you state that it is for opening packages, letters, that stupid vacuum formed packaging that everything comes in nowaday or even for cleaning your finger nails it is a tool.

It is up to the State to prove you had it for the purpose of a weapon.

None of this is to say the you won't be arrested. Nothing will ever prevent a officer who wants to arrest you, from arresting you. You can be arrested at any time for any reason if the officer really wants to arrest you. Proving that the arrest is valid to the DAs office or to a court is a whole differant story.