Kerhsaw Leek Beats Delica in Edge Retention Test

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microtech85

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Dec 1, 2015
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Hey guys, i just did another cut test video and the leek beat the delica and by a fair margin. I was expecting them to be somewhat similar but the leek pushed on farther. Plus, the leek cuts into the rope more easily than the delica. Ergonomically, the leek was easier to use with no hot spots on those heavy down bearing cuts, however, it was a little tiring on the hand because of the small handle. I really like the leek a lot with the exception of the clip. It either carries on your left side, or on your right side with almost an inch of knife out of your pocket. The video is in the process of loading. It should be on youtube in about 2 hours. I will post a link when i get it. My best delica did 360 cuts, the leek did 560.
VG-10 Delica FFG vs Sandvik 14c28n leek with stainless handle
 
That doesn't sound right at all. 14c28n shouldn't be performing better than VG-10, unless your VG-10 was on the low side and your Sandvik was on the high side.
 
I agree with dkb45 - With the experience I've had with Kershaw's 14C28N, (and using Spyderco's VG-10 for years), and comparing it in my use with other blade steels in production knives, I can't imagine 14C28N coming out ahead. It's a very good blade steel, to be sure, but ahead of Vg-10? o_O

ETA: and none of my use of knives/blade steels for the last 10+ years has been scientific in any way. (Well, maybe "scientific" in a Dr. Bunson Honeydew [Muppets] sort of way...)

Nothing personal, and I certainly mean no disrespect to the OP (I'm no steel expert by any means), but that conclusion just seems off to me. Maybe the video will clarify some details.

~Chris
 
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Why not? My result lines up with Ankersons'; he has 14c28n a category higher than vg10 and my test confirms that. The leek has good edge geometry on its side too. I think we all assume vg10 is better because it is more expensive. I tested two delicas. One got 300 cuts and then other got 360 cuts. Nothing wrong with test. But the test really is equally knife vs knife as it is steel vs steel. Watch my test videos and make your own conclusion if you'd like. I test cut paper every so often so if you would like to say it cuts less, then you may. You can see and listen to the test cuts on the paper. The video will be up soon for anyone who would like to view it. I started doing these videos last week for the benefit of this forum and myself. No agenda, just pure curiosity, plain and simple. I am aware that some may not like this result though.
 
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The leek and the two delicas have not been touched since the cut tests. They are all in the same condition they were when i stopped the tests. So if there is a consensus that i stopped the delica test too soon, i can resume it. Also, with the way these videos are done, you may decide for yourself that the test is over at any point when you think it is not cutting the test paper properly. I have my doubts sometimes on when to call the test over and when to keep going, so i will be happy to have input. Let me know because i think the test between the delica and the leek is an interesting one, and i think its worth having right.
 
Not surprised at all, 14c28n is really underrated steel around here, in fact I not only greatly prefer it over VG-10 but even over S30V. Of course this depends on the HT and the HRC its ran at. I would prefer to see 59-60 with 61 as the absolute max. I've had two Kershaws I felt were atleast 61 and coupled with their thin bladestock and fine tips they should of been ran softer but edge retention was great (toughness suffered but it was probably as much geometry / hardness as it was actually a property of the steel).

In my real world use (NOT at all scientific tests) I would rank them as follows:
8Cr13MoV
Good 440(x)
AUS-8
VG-10/BD1
S30V/154CM
CPM154
14C28N
S35VN (depending on intended use and geometry 14c28n and S35VN could really be grouped together but in most production knives I've got any exp with S35VN is slightly better in toughness and about equal in edge retention).
 
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Cereal_killer said:
Not surprised at all, 12c28n is really underrated steel around here, in fact I not only greatly prefer it over VG-10 but even over S30V. Of course this depends on the HT and the HRC its ran at. I would prefer to see 59-60 with 61 as the absolute max. I've had two Kershaws I felt were atleast 61 and coupled with their thin bladestock and fine tips they should of been ran softer but edge retention was great (toughness suffered but it was probably as much geometry / hardness as it was actually a property of the steel).

In my real world use (NOT at all scientific tests) I would rank them as follows:
8Cr13MoV
Good 440(x)
AUS-8
VG-10/BD1
S30V/154CM
CPM154
12C28N
S35VN (depending on intended use and geometry 12c28n and S35VN could really be grouped together but in most production knives I've got any exp with S35VN is slightly better in toughness and about equal in edge retention).
Click to expand...

The steel in the Leek is 14C28N. I have used a leek, and the geometry is the knife is excellent. Terrific slicer.
 
dkb45 said:
That doesn't sound right at all. 14c28n shouldn't be performing better than VG-10, unless your VG-10 was on the low side and your Sandvik was on the high side.
Click to expand...

Edge geometry. Even a FFG Delica is a thicker blade than a Leek. Leeks are devilishly good slicers. And 12C28 is not bad steel. I don't think it's so much worse than VG10 that edge geometry can't explain the difference.
 
What is the thickness of the edges, and the sharpening angle? What grit were they sharpened too? The Leek is a thinner blade I believe but what are the edges?

"I think we all assume vg10 is better because it is more expensive."

I don't think it's better or worse. They are both premium steels. VG10 is designed for greater abrasive wear resistance ( in the 440C class but designed to have a much better grain structure and higher potential hardness without going powder steel processing) due to it's higher carbon content and slightly higher chrome. 19C27 is the Sandvik steel in this class designed for similar purposes. Naturally we see that other factors can have a greater impact on this kind of performance test which is why I requested the angles and thicknesses. That may be the reason. maybe not but it's the logical place to begin looking ( problem solving 101, start with the easiest, most probable answer first and then go on to the more complicated ones)

BTW, thanks for testing then sharing the results with us. That is a lot of time and effort and I'm grateful when someone makes the effort to share that with us.

Joe
 
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Honestly, I did not think the Leek would perform this well, but if it does I think I need to start sending Real Steel some messages to make more knives lefty friendly in Sandvik. Don't get me wrong, I know Sandvik steels are great, performing almost like a powder metallurgy version of their most closely related steel. 14c28n has been great to me, showing surprisingly great edge retention considering you can get it on $30-50 knives, the inverse being true with VG-10, it's kinda disappointed me in performance considering it's in $200 knives and touted as a premium steel.

I guess I let the price tag influence my opinion on 14c28n and VG-10 a little too much.
 
I mention the sharpening process in each video, but i didn't mention as much detail in this video. For these tests i am sharpening the knives at about 20 degrees, 40 degrees inclusive. i start on a 600 grit red dmt diasharp 2x8 inch stone if needed. Then progress to spyderco medium ceramic, then the spyderco fine ceramic, then 2-3 passes on each side on a strop loaded with green compound. I use the strop only to get rid of any trace of burr. I do not like to get the edge much finer than the spyderco white. As far as edges, i do not know the thicknesses. I am looking at the spines of the delica and leek side by side, and they look very similar in thickness with the delica being slightly thicker possibly. Here are all of my results so far:

300 cuts - vg-10 - delica stainless handle, hollow grind
360 cuts - vg-10 - delica 4 ffg
438 cuts - s35vn - zt 0450
560 cuts - 14c28n - leek
1050 cuts - s30v - sage 3
 
The way the cutting is done seems flawed to me. Where as you pretty much use the entire blade on the Leek, the Delica seems to only be used with the belly of the blade, which would drastically decrease how many cuts it'll have. Just my opinion. VG-10 should pretty much on par with 14c28n. Also, S35VN having half the cuts of S30V? Something extremely wrong there too, either in sharpening or testing.
 
`br4dz- said:
The way the cutting is done seems flawed to me. Where as you pretty much use the entire blade on the Leek, the Delica seems to only be used with the belly of the blade, which would drastically decrease how many cuts it'll have. Just my opinion. VG-10 should pretty much on par with 14c28n. Also, S35VN having half the cuts of S30V? Something extremely wrong there too, either in sharpening or testing.
Click to expand...
I would think the ZT0450 is way less slicey than the Sage.
 
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