Kershaw Leek - illegal in California?

A

Aeneas

Joined
Dec 24, 2001
Messages
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I checked out the Leek at the BAKCA show last weekend. I thought it was a very cool knife, and I especially liked the index finger opening. To open the knife that way, you don't need to use the thumb stud at all; you simply push in with your index finger on what appears to be an extension of the back side of the blade. Once you've pushed a certain distance, the SpeedSafe mechanism takes over and snaps the blade out the rest of the way very firmly.

I didn't buy the knife because I was concerned that it was an illegal switchblade under California law. So I looked up the relevant statute. Here it is, Penal Code Section 653k:

"653k. Every person who possesses in the passenger's or driver's area of any motor vehicle in any public place or place open to the public, carries upon his or her person, and every person who sells, offers for sale, exposes for sale, loans, transfers, or gives to any
other person a switchblade knife having a blade two or more inches in length is guilty of a misdemeanor.

For the purposes of this section, "switchblade knife" means a knife having the appearance of a pocketknife and includes a spring-blade knife, snap-blade knife, gravity knife or any other similar type knife, the blade or blades of which are two or more inches in length and which can be released automatically by a flick of a button, pressure on the handle, flip of the wrist or other mechanical device, or is released by the weight of the blade or by any type of mechanism whatsoever. "Switchblade knife" does not include a knife that opens with one hand utilizing thumb pressure applied solely to the blade of the knife or a thumb stud attached to the blade, provided that the knife has a detent or other mechanism that provides resistance that must be overcome in opening the blade, or that biases the blade back toward its closed position.

For purposes of this section, "passenger's or driver's area" means that part of a motor vehicle which is designed to carry the driver and passengers, including any interior compartment or space therein."

So, if a knife has "the appearance of a pocket knife" and a blade of two or more inches in length, and the blade "can be released automatically by ... mechanical device" or "is released by any type of mechanism whatsoever ..." it is a switchblade.

Kershaw's own website describes Speed Safe as a "mechanism": it refers to it as "the patented SpeedSafe torsion bar mechanism of assisted opening".

The Leek has "the appearance of a pocket knife"; it has a blade of 2" or more in length; and it appears that blade "is released by any type of mechanism whatsoever ...". So just from reading the statute (I searched for California cases containing the words "kershaw leek" but didn't find any), IMHO it appears that the Leek could be considered a switchblade under California law. It is certainly close enough for a prosecutor to take the case to trial if he wanted to.

A while back there was a post on this forum from a young man in Washington state who was prosecuted there for possession of a Leek. I don't recall exactly what the Washington statute said, but I don't think that it was any more prohibitive than the CA one. The court denied his motions to have the case dismissed without a trial. He had to go all the way through a jury trial. The jury hung. He didn't say how they were split, but at least one person had to vote to find him guilty. Apparently the prosecution decided not to re-try the case. But what happened to him could happen to anyone in CA as well -and even if you were acquitted, you would still have gone through a jury trial, with the expenses of attorneys, experts, etc. not to mention all your own time.

I believe that in the Washington state case Kershaw provided the young man with an expert witness and paid something towards his attorney's fees. But even if Kershaw did the same for you, you would still have to go through the hassle of being arrested, possibly spending some time in jail when you are arrested, hiring an attorney, showing up in court, going through a jury trial, etc. Is it worth that risk just to carry this specific knife in California instead of another knife that is clearly not a "switchblade"? I guess each individual has to decide that for himself, but to me it is not worth the risk.
 
Originally posted by Aeneas
"Switchblade knife" does not include a knife that opens with one hand utilizing thumb pressure applied solely to the blade of the knife or a thumb stud attached to the blade, provided that the knife has a detent or other mechanism that provides resistance that must be overcome in opening the blade, or that biases the blade back toward its closed position.
Click to expand...

There's the answer.
 
because, it takes your thumb to begin the opening of the blade, It would not be considered a switchblade. Only problem is there are many cops, that would beleive the contrary(only because they, believe or not dont fully understand the law, and WILL cite you for this offense). So, if I were you, memorize this law, and be ready to tell the cop what the real law is. Chances are, if your not rally posing a threat, and are polite, and tell the law how it is they wont harass you......HOPEFULLY!!!
 
They are not illegal in CA, but few people will agree with you! You should be ready to prove the leaglity of the knife if you are questioned.
 
Gee that sucks!

I can flip every one of my knives open with a quick snap of the wrist, or with some knives, a not-so-quick snap of the wrist. My Gerber EZ-Outs, Benchmade Stryker, and My newest Mini-Commander all can be opened in that manner. Guess they are classified as switchblades. I won't be going to Kalifornia anytime soon.

Mike
 
Alphalpha - the language you quote, when read in the context of the entire statute, means that the thumb screw in and of itself does not render the knife a switchblade. The presence of a thumb screw does not make a knife which is otherwise a switchblade not a switchblade. For example, if you took a regular, push-button auto and added a thumb screw, that wouldn't mean that it was no longer an auto, would it?


3rd wound - It doesn't take your thumb to start it - your thumb doesn't have to do anything at all. Your index finger pushes this extension on the back of the blade far enough for the mechanism to activate.
 
I just realized that what I am calling an "extension" of the blade is actually on the sharp (Front?)side of the blade. When the knife is closed the "extension" sticks out the back of the handle. Check out the photos on various web sites and you'll know what I mean.
 
The law is very confusing. I personally see no difference between flicking your wrist or flicking your thumb, yet gravity knives ar illegal. The speedsafe mechanism holds tension against the blade in the closed position, but some switchblades are locked in the closed position. I think the ideal California knife would have no pocket clip, locks in only the closed position, and have a backspring that exerts more pressure than I could bench press against.
 
Originally posted by Aeneas
For the purposes of this section, "switchblade knife" means a knife having the appearance of a pocketknife and includes a spring-blade knife, snap-blade knife, gravity knife or any other similar type knife, the blade or blades of which are two or more inches in length and which can be released automatically by a flick of a button, pressure on the handle, flip of the wrist or other mechanical device, or is released by the weight of the blade or by any type of mechanism whatsoever. "Switchblade knife" does not include a knife that opens with one hand utilizing thumb pressure applied solely to the blade of the knife or a thumb stud attached to the blade, provided that the knife has a detent or other mechanism that provides resistance that must be overcome in opening the blade, or that biases the blade back toward its closed position.
Click to expand...

The whole shebang can be split into two things:

1. What defines a switchblade
2. Exceptions to the above

Since the stuff listed in item 1 can pretty much be interpreted to include any kind of knife, I think we need to focus on the exceptions.

Kershaw's knives don't have opening buttons. They have both thumbstuds and an extension to the blade that you press to open the knife (albeit with your index finger, that might be the little detail that gets you some one-on-one time with your cellmate Bubba). They also have a slight but nevertheless present resistance that must be overcome when opening the blade.

Kershaw most likely took CA (and other) switchblade laws into consideration when they designed the Speed-Safe series of knives.

Though the laws say that it's legal, I'd say that means about jack to the LEO that's of the opinion that you're a switchblade-wielding maniac. :) So that's why I don't carry my Chive anymore, and I'm looking to sell it off soon.

edited to add:

One more thing, there's a lot of meaning in the one word "solely". That's where the thumbstud and blade extension make what would be considered a switchblade into a non-switchblade. So I'd have to disagree with your line of argument. Sure, if a knife has a button and a thumbstud and blade extension to open the blade, it's still a switchblade. The exception doesn't change that. However, we're not debating that point here, the focus is on the features that the Speed-Safe knives have (or don't have), to decide whether or not they're legal in CA.
 
I don't want to nit-pick here, so this will probably be my final post on the topic. I disagree with Alphalpha's arguments that the thumb pressure language constitutes an "exception" to the switchblade definition and that "the thumbstud and blade extension make what would be considered a switchblade into a non-switchblade". That is not what the thumb pressure language is intended to do.

Because the basic definition of a switchblade and the clarification regarding thumb pressure are apparently in conflict, a court would, if possible, interpret the entire statute so as to give meaning to all of its provisions and not render any of its provisions meaningless.

The only way to harmonize the two provisions is to interpret the thumb pressure language as clarifying that the fact that a folding knife can be opened with one hand by thumb pressure on the blade or a thumb stud does not, in and of itself, make the knife a "switchblade". That was clearly the legislative intent. If the court were to interpret the thumb pressure language as creating an "exception", that would mean that the legislature intended that a thumbstud or thumbhole would render a knife which is otherwise a switchblade not a switchblade. The court would then be saying that the legislature's intent was to say to manufacturers "Hey, just take your switchblades and add thumb studs to them and they will no longer be switchblades." That is not what the legislature intended.

The fact that the Leek has a thumbstud, in and of itself, does not make it a "switchblade" in California, but it also does not prevent it from being a switchblade if other features of the knife make it a switchblade. The determination of whether the Leek is a switchblade or not would be made solely on the basis of the Speedsafe mechanism as activated with the index finger on the "extension".
 
It's up to the LEO when it comes to illegal or not, always has been that way, you can state you opinion at the time of any trouble, but if the LEO takes your knife it will be up to the judge then.

James
 
This issue is of great interest to me since I just got a Chive and a Leek last week. The following section indicates that a knife isn't a switchblade if it opens with one hand with thumb pressure on the blade.
"Switchblade knife" does not include a knife that opens with one hand utilizing thumb pressure applied solely to the blade of the knife or a thumb stud attached to the blade, provided that the knife has a detent or other mechanism that provides resistance that must be overcome in opening the blade, or that biases the blade back toward its closed position.
Click to expand...
These knives aren't designed to be opened this way (using the thumb instead of the index finger), but it is definitely possible. The Chive is pretty easy to open one-handed with the thumb (maybe not if your hands are large), the Leek is much tougher and isn't really safe to open this way - but it's possible (I couldn't do it without dropping it as it opened). However, the law doesn't say that this has to be the intended way, the safest way, or the easiest way, just that it has to be possible, which it is. I'm pretty sure that you could convince a DA to not prosecute, since the letter of the law appears to be satisfied, but not that you could avoid a big hassle if the knife was found on you by an LEO.

miguel
 
"released automatically by a flick of a button, pressure on the handle, flip of the wrist or other mechanical device, or is released by the weight of the blade or by any type of mechanism whatsoever."

The reason that the Kershaw Speed Safe design is legal and sold in a store near you is due to a legal loophole in the law. The only way to open a Speed Safe design is to "manually move the blade" to open the knife. There is no button, pressure on the handle, or flip of the wrist. Ken Onion was a genius to come up with this design. If it was illegal in your state, it would not be sold in stores. Find a gun/knife shop that is well known and respected by LEO that carries them and then you can say you got it there. If it was illegal in your state, that shop would not be selling them.
 
I'm not military of LEO, but I haven't found a shop yet that wouldn't sell me a switchblade. Not that I buy them, the reason being a little humorous considering the discussion going on. A spring-assisted knife offers no advantage over a manual one-hander, IMO. Pull back the axis bar or slide release on a rolling lock and you have a gravity knife. Plus, is an index finger against a flipper on a speedsafe knife all that different from a thumb on a button lock of an auto in a practical sense? This, to me, seems to be a case of technological advancement outstripping the law. Kinda like trying to police the net.
 
I look at it like this....If Wal-Mart sells chives, I'd say they're not Illegal. WaLLY-Mart is about as ANAL...as the come, LOL:D
 
Originally posted by Medic1210
Gee that sucks!

I can flip every one of my knives open with a quick snap of the wrist, or with some knives, a not-so-quick snap of the wrist. My Gerber EZ-Outs, Benchmade Stryker, and My newest Mini-Commander all can be opened in that manner. Guess they are classified as switchblades. I won't be going to Kalifornia anytime soon.

Mike
Click to expand...

Medic1210, I suggest that, if your knives flip open without the blade being started by your thumb, finger, or somthing, they can and will fall under the category of capable of being "opened by a
throwing, explosive, or spring action", in this case, throwing or flipping. That is one reason for making certain that the pivot screws are kept appropriately tight on those folders that have adjustable pivot screws. The other reason is that I am averse to having them coming open in my pocket, especially the tip-up models.

From the North Carolina Crimial Code:

§ 14-269. Carrying concealed weapons.
(a)It shall be unlawful for any person willfully and
intentionally to carry concealed about his person any bowie
knife, dirk, dagger, slung shot, loaded cane, metallic knuckles,
razor, shurikin, stun gun, or other deadly weapon of like kind,
except when the person is on the person's own premises.
<Items b & c deleted as not applicable>
(d) This section does not apply to an ordinary pocket knife
carried in a closed position. As used in this section, "ordinary
pocket knife" means a small knife, designed for carrying in a
pocket or purse, that has its cutting edge and point entirely
enclosed by its handle, and that may not be opened by a
throwing, explosive, or spring action. <Bolding for emphasis>
 
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