Kershaw like this

razorburn · Oct 18, 2008

I was wondering if anyone had any problems with Kershaw framelocks like I do.A while ago,I sent my barely used, and IMHO, defective( Mini-cyclone ZDP-189 )for service.From the start,The lockbar was touching the other side when held and when not would would return to rest at the middle of the tang of the blade.

Peened Lock cutout

Lockbar

After service,Marred screws

I did mention this before www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6044018#post6044018 ,Nineth post

bobg2 · Oct 18, 2008

My Ti-ZDP mini-cyclone is exactly the same way. I think this was a condition that existed with many of those knives. I have seen it reported numerous times before with this knife. I also have the same condition with one of my damascus chives.
However, I have about a dozen Kershaw framelocks that lock-up as perfectly as any of my Sebenzas. It is not a systemic condition with Kershaw framelocks in general by any stretch of the imagination, just an occasional manufacturing variation that occurs with any mass produced product (IMO)

J_Curd · Oct 18, 2008

Is the knife difficult to close? It surely isnt unsafe, and I've had framelocks that have done this as well, but I never considered it an issue. I guess what Im asking, is this an issue because of your preference in knives, or is the knife dysfunctional for you?

ericb445 · Oct 18, 2008

My TI mini cyclone did this from day one,but only when you grab it tightly, and my 301 just started doing it. Some people this isn't a problem, some it is. The way I see it is if the blade has any play it is a problem. If no blade play I am good.
-Eric

Thomas W · Oct 18, 2008

Hey razorburn, sorry about your issue.

Not sure if your complaint here is the lock, the service, or both, but I'll try to address them for you.

As to the lock travel, there has been a thread about this in the past, you can read it here: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=533463&highlight=leek

Whether or not this satisfies you I am unsure, but I don't have more to add on the issue. Personally I don't particularly like the lock travel, and Craig and I (as well as STeven & I) have had some serious (some of it very heated) over the particulars of the subject.

With regards to your Ti Mini Cyclone (see post #18 in the link), it has a flat 7 degree plane in the lock area, thus the lock will travel over (on most anyway). What we have found is that is doesn't affect the lock up, and there is no "slop" that occurs because of this travel. This may be annoying to some and doesn't get a second look from others, but there is not a "fix" for Ti Mini Cyclone for those it bothers. It is not considered a defect or a warranty issue, but we do try and satify those that is does annoy by fine tuning the knife up the best we can.

I do know you have had additional issues with this knife after you took it apart and reassembled it. I can tell by your description of how the knife is currently behaving that it has to do with how you have put the knife back together.

As far as the knife coming back from warranty in the shape that it did, all I can say is that that is not the norm, and if it is as you say, we apologize. I have spoken with Craig on the particulars of your situation, and if you would like to get the piece to us again we will tune it up. If you need us to send a call tag to do that, we will honor that as well.
I will say that I don't think the piece is going to come back to you without the lock travel, as that is not how the knife was constructed, sorry.

topspeclt · Oct 18, 2008

I have several Storm II knives and if you push\force the frame lock it does move across BUT it does not affect the lock up in way. No blade play horizontal or vertical and that's important.

If i tightly grip the handle I can't even feel the lock moving across.

So, in terms of use there is no -perceivable- difference if the lock moves or not other than if you look and note the lock position.

I think this is the way they are designed, I don't consider it as a flaw at all. It's a characteristic of frame locks.

If it was a liner lock then it's a problem (because the thin liner can move resulting in blade play) but since it's a frame lock it is not an issue what so ever.

I would send it Kershaw for a tune up and reassemble as Thomas said.

All the best,

The Mastiff · Oct 18, 2008

Thomas W. Stated:

I will say that I don't think the piece is going to come back to you without the lock travel, as that is not how the knife was constructed, sorry.

After you push the frame lock all the way over, it returns by itself right? It seems like that's what I'm seeing here.

Even at the fully pushed over position ( which is a property of Ti, which is why there are now new patented devices on the market designed to stop this which were unavailable to kershaw when the knife was built, and only now if kershaw buys the rights to make a certain amount of them) There isn't a problem with the safety of the lock. Not in the natural position, or the pushed over position.

I see it all the time where people force a liner over and complain when it goes exactly where they just made it go. There were complaints on another well respected makers forum last week about the same thing.

I guess my advice is if you lost confidence in the knife, get those screws that are buggered up replaced and sell it. It's not an unsafe design even if it is doing what you describe, and will be bought by someone who would love to have it.

In the future liner locks have to have flexibility or they don't work. Sometimes they get forced over, sometimes through poor design, or wear they move over by themselves.

Fortunately, the way this one is designed it may not be perfect, but it should still be safe at those positions showed.

I'm not sure what you are showing in the other pictures as there are imperfections on any knife if examined closely enough. If you want closer tolerances and perfect to the eye and caliper products expect to pay for them. Kershaw does better than most in that regard in my experience.

Ti will always be more flexible than high hardness steel of the same dimensions. I have around 15 Ti framelocks at this time, having had a lot more in the past. I have steel framelocks also. Each material has strengths and weaknesses.

The ability to flex, and return to true is a Ti strongpoint. The thinner the ti/steel, the easier it is to flex. To make a framelock, making an unflexible scale/liner means it's too difficult to push over to release it.

As I was saying, if you don't think you can get along with the knife there are those here that would buy it. You are talking yourself out of potential value with this thread though. Joe

JNieporte · Oct 18, 2008

I've owned perhaps 40-60 frame locks by various manufacturers. I've never had an issue with Kershaw's frame locks, and not many have frame liners that touch the other side. Even on the ones that do, it's a non-isse since it doesn't affect blade play (none) or the difficulty of unlocking the blade (easy).

PURPLEDC · Oct 18, 2008

personally id rather have the lock bar sit that far over as long as the knife will close. The only liner or frame locks that have ever failed on me were ones were the lock or blade tang was at such a degree that any slight tap to the spine or accidental pressure in the wrong direction would pop the lock as if the angle was like a ramp. My fingers never liked that.

DRod · Oct 18, 2008

My chive and Leek both push over like that too, with very little pressure. Kinda bugs me too but the finicky pivot bugs me most. I can deal with it most of the time because I like to tinker but... well it still kinda bugs me. Still don't think the lock bar should be able to do that. Should convex the end of the tang where the lock contacts it, imo.

gcgcgc · Oct 18, 2008

Maybe I'm the odd one out - I actually prefer the frame lock going over more rather than less, as is shown in the photos.

If it takes 1/2 a second more to close, that's fine, but I like the extra protection it provides.

J_Curd · Oct 18, 2008

If you dislike it that much I would be interested in it so I can actually EDC one (mine is minty fresh and in the safe).

Joe

razorburn · Oct 21, 2008

Thomas W said:
Hey razorburn, sorry about your issue.

Not sure if your complaint here is the lock, the service, or both, but I'll try to address them for you.

As to the lock travel, there has been a thread about this in the past, you can read it here: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=533463&highlight=leek

Whether or not this satisfies you I am unsure, but I don't have more to add on the issue. Personally I don't particularly like the lock travel, and Craig and I (as well as STeven & I) have had some serious (some of it very heated) over the particulars of the subject.

With regards to your Ti Mini Cyclone (see post #18 in the link), it has a flat 7 degree plane in the lock area, thus the lock will travel over (on most anyway). What we have found is that is doesn't affect the lock up, and there is no "slop" that occurs because of this travel. This may be annoying to some and doesn't get a second look from others, but there is not a "fix" for Ti Mini Cyclone for those it bothers. It is not considered a defect or a warranty issue, but we do try and satify those that is does annoy by fine tuning the knife up the best we can.

I do know you have had additional issues with this knife after you took it apart and reassembled it. I can tell by your description of how the knife is currently behaving that it has to do with how you have put the knife back together.

As far as the knife coming back from warranty in the shape that it did, all I can say is that that is not the norm, and if it is as you say, we apologize. I have spoken with Craig on the particulars of your situation, and if you would like to get the piece to us again we will tune it up. If you need us to send a call tag to do that, we will honor that as well.
I will say that I don't think the piece is going to come back to you without the lock travel, as that is not how the knife was constructed, sorry.

Thomas, my complaint here is that Kershaw made a poorly executed framelock in my opinion and that I also had poor customer service experience.I read post #18 of the link provided,I agree a radiused arc blade tang would be better than the 7 degree plane like the Tyrade.

Strange thing happened shortly after receiving it back from service,I noticed that blade's tang was regrinded,the area around the framelock was punched, and the cutout was peened as my picture shows. The tang was sort of no longer having a prefect 7 degree plane(Please look at my pic of the lock,first one),instead somewhat perpendicular to the handles.

Don't get me wrong,I have a Titanium bump with the same 7 degree which has performed flawlessly and I'm Happy to say the lockup is absolutely rock solid.

For my knife,I think the best thing would be to send her in for an inspection to the attention of Craig Green.Thomas tell me more about this call tag that you mention.