Kershaw link at 15 dps, what can I expect?

115Italian

115Italian

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Nov 13, 2015
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I reprofiled the edge of my kershaw link with 420hc steel to 15 dps with a 22 degree micro bevel. This is the lowest edge angle Ive ever sharpend at on any of my knives. What can I expect out of this steel now?
 
it may be ok, it may not. common issues with low angle edges can be rolling or chipping. I have not had the best luck with 15 degree edges on my edc knives. I would have excessive edge rolling. I sharpen by hand so my angles aren't exact, but i try to keep between 17 and 20 degrees. My kershaw leek with 14c28n was one of my knives that did well with 15dps. My vg10 on delicas did not hold up too well at 15, they often rolled on me.
 
I don't have the Link in 420HC so can't tell you there. I do have the M390 version, which I profiled to 12 dps, and it's doing fine in light EDU duty over the last month or so.
 
maximus83 said:
I don't have the Link in 420HC so can't tell you there. I do have the M390 version, which I profiled to 12 dps, and it's doing fine in light EDU duty over the last month or so.
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Wow, that is quite a low angle. Exactly what kind of use has that knife seen with that angle? I consider my edc use to be moderate. My knives all look pretty new still after years of use but most of my knives have rolled when i did 15 dps.
 
Oh I wouldn't suggest that as a general practice or anything, it IS quite an acute angle, and I may eventually run into issues too. I'm currently experimenting to see how acute I can go on folder angles and still have a durable edge. After using it for a while on my copy of this knife, haven't run into issues yet. But using it only for light EDU tasks: food prep, mail and boxes, and a handful of times, cutting a little tough material like zip ties or wires or plastic, that's been about it.
 
115Italian said:
I reprofiled the edge of my kershaw link with 420hc steel to 15 dps with a 22 degree micro bevel. This is the lowest edge angle Ive ever sharpend at on any of my knives. What can I expect out of this steel now?
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Hi,
What exactly did you expect before?
What are you cutting on what are you cutting?


I expect you'd have even better performance (easier cutting) with a 20 degree microbevel :p or even better with a 16 dps microbevel.
Sure it will be slightly less resistant to hitting rocks and metal. .... but its a knife right :)

15dps is a "safe" knife sharpening angle for any steel,
consider that under 15 dps edge can chop bones And 12 dps edge can still shaves/whittles beard hair after 1000 slices of hardwood ( yes a 1000 slices of hardwood )
25dps dulls faster than 20dps even if those are microbevel angles

Also, consider this mind exploding material , spyderco delica/pacific salt...Extreme Regrind , ~6DPS with 10dps microbevel, no damage in 50 slices into pine, hardwood flooring and plywood the edge eventually gets damaged while cutting metal (steel food can)



razors blade angles are 7 to 8 degrees per side ( 14 to 16 degrees inclusive)
17 degrees per side is axe angle for felling hardwoods
swamper axe at 17.5 dps
25 dps and 30dps (50-60 inclusive) and higher are angles for metal cutting cold chisels or splitting wedges

Wood chisels only go to 30 degrees total.

Leonard Lee's The Complete Guide to Sharpening recommends felling axe edge angles as low as 10-12 dps. Granted, he does qualify it by saying clean (knot free) green wood, but still. In any case, challenge accepted. We'll see what happens.

Here they says 25 degrees (12.5 degrees per side), An Ax to Grind: A Practical Ax Manual - 99232823 - FS Publications - Publications - Recreational Trails - Environment - FHWA
fig068.jpg

Most axes have a 30-40 degree angle at the end of the bit and a 15-20 degree angle about ½” from the cutting edge.

gransforsbruk
Slipning-Yxans-skotsel-6.jpg

1 listed for frozen wood is 80 degrees or 40 degrees per side (cold chisel)
2 listed for softwood is HIGH angle at 42 degress or 21 dps
3 listed for carving is is 25 degress or 12.5 dps
 
It should be fine. I sharpen ~52RC machete edges to 15° per side and never run into trouble with them holding up except in extreme circumstances like chopping dry black locust branches (that stuff is so hard you might as well be chopping rebar!)
 
OP, the only other thing I'd suggest in addition to your 15 dps back bevel, is bring your micro bevel angle closer to your back bevel. So if the back bevel is 15 dps, try going 17 or 18 dps on the micro. It will still increase the durability of your edge, but will also improve cutting performance letting you get the maximum benefit from your 15 dps bevel.
 
If you're not doing any hard chopping, prying or twisting with the edge, then there're no worries at 15°/side, or even lower. Consider that, by their own sharpening policy, Buck Knives aims for 13°-16°/side (26°-32° inclusive) for their knives in 420HC. Cutting geometry is great in this ballpark, and Buck has arrived at that target via testing of edge durability (thru CATRA), which shows the edge cuts better for longer in this range.

I don't even consider anything higher than 15°/side anymore, for any knife I use. I don't even microbevel any higher than that, on the infrequent occasions I actually use microbevels at all. Most of my edges are generally closer to 25° inclusive (12.5°/side), and some are likely lower than that. The key is in using the knife as it should be used (as a cutting tool), and not as a prying tool or screwdriver.
 
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Thanks everyone for the input. I had no expectations with the reprofile. I just wanted to feel an edge at 15 dps. The micro bevel was added because I thought it would help with stability. Next time Ill try just the 15dps. Then maybe for a touch up later on a micro bevel closer to 15.
The link us my around the house user. It sees a lot of plastic and paper. The worse use it got was cutting out a small area of sheet rock that needed repair. That was at the factory edge angle. Kershaw 420hc did hold up a lot better than I thought.
 
Obsessed with Edges said:
by their own sharpening policy, Buck Knives aims for 13-16°/side (26°-32° inclusive) for their knives in 420HC. Cutting geometry is great in this ballpark, and Buck has arrived at that target via testing of edge durability (thru CATRA), which shows the edge cuts better for longer in this range.
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That is really great information. Do you have a link to an online source that describes this? Hadn't heard before.....

ETA: I find their 13-16 dps recommendation here, but can't find the CATRA info.

https://www.buckknives.com/about-knives/knife-sharpening/
 
maximus83 said:
That is really great information. Do you have a link to an online source that describes this? Hadn't heard before.....

ETA: I find their 13-16 dps recommendation here, but can't find the CATRA info.

https://www.buckknives.com/about-knives/knife-sharpening/
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It was discussed at some length in the Buck subforum here on BF, some years ago. Buck initiated a program with their new specs, called 'Edge2000' or something to that effect, right around the year 2000 (makes sense). A few times since, I've retried looking up some of that discussion; but, I don't know if it's ever been discussed in much detail on their own mfr site. ( EDIT: Buck has renamed the old 'Edge 2000' spec as 'Edge2x' these days, on their own web site. )

I'll see if I can find some of that again...

For starters, here's a thread from 2001 below, with descriptions of CATRA testing in the OP, by C.J. Buck, and other engineering staff in following posts, and a mention of their target angle spec (generally referred to as 'E2K' in the thread) in post #16 specifically:

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/catra-edge-testing-results.127499/
 
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Man I wish we could collect and organize info like that into some kind of sticky reference thread, it would be so useful. Something like: "Sharpening practices by leading knife manufacturers." The information they can provide based on their more rigorous testing, which they then translate into their manufacturing process, is SO useful to us in the sense that it can become good guidance on sharpening practices.

Here's some interesting general guidance from the CATRA org itself, in their FAQ, about sharpening angle ranges. If you scroll down to Q13 in their FAQ, they provide a table with recommended inclusive angle ranges. For example in folders, they suggest 30 to 35 (15 to 17.5 dps). Their numbers seem a bit more conservative than Buck's, for example. And more conservative than me, I've been doing just about all my folders as 12-13 dps lately.

http://www.catra.org/pages/products/kniveslevel1/faq.htm
 
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I like the sharpness of a nice knife at 15 dps but my s35vn and vg10 from spyderco and zt s35vn have always had little rolls form that would cause me to resharpen about once every week or two. I have since gone up to about 17 to 20 on most of my knives and edge retention is much better now. Im able to maintain arm hair shaving edges for months now with occasional stropping as opposed to only days to two weeks. In conclusion, as others have said, i do not think there is a one size fits all for edge angles. it is highly dependent on the type of use and the physical limitations of your blade. Bottom line is, make it as thin as your use and blade can withstand. If it rolls or chips away in your regular use, then make the edge thicker until it does not. In my use, a stable edge that is resistant to chipping and rolling is more important than wear resistance. If you do not have a stable edge you will not be able to take full advantage of high wear resistance steels.
 
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