Kershaw vs. CRK and custom Makers

OregonEdge

OregonEdge

Joined
Aug 13, 2005
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This is something I have had in the back of my mind for some time, and I want to make a few qualifications before I voice an opinion and solicit others. 1. I am a Kershaw Fan, and this is my forum of choice, so that's why I post here. 2. I have owned hundreds of knives, 15 or more Chris Reeves, and many many customs from Ken Onion, to Bogi, to Kit Carson. Yesterday I visited one of my favorite little knife shops where I'm able to score a few knives at wholesale from time to time. He had just gotton in some older sebenzas, and older William Henrys. In looking through the Sebis, I noticed that I wasn't as impressed with them as I had been years ago. I respect their reputation, and the solid construction and incredible tolerances that many factories haven't been able to approach. However, there is STIFF competition growing and the current markets DEMAND new ideas an innovation. I'm sure there are those who are very loyal to CRK and they certainly hold a soft spot in my heart as well. But I feel they are in jeopardy unless they rethink (very soon) their strategy. They are destined to become a casualty. I recently read a post where someone challenged the sebenza, comparing it to lower cost mini skirmish from BM. Sebenza supporters called the skirmish a poor man's Sebenza. Power to them for being loyal, but a heck of a lot of knives are coming out with far more innovation in materials and technology than just the Skirmish. it was stated that the fit and finish of the Sebenza makes it the Rolls Royce among knife model cars. I admire CRKs ability to recognize their niche, and control prices to keep them in the upper tier of production knives. But that day is coming to an end and the biggest danger to a successful company is becoming content. Notice that I have not dwelled on Kershaw since you already know I love them and feel they are explosively growing in all the right areas and offering great value. This issue is much larger and also threatens a considerable portion of the custom market as well. I can't say all of that market, because there is a special something about a hand made knife (not a custom maker with a CNC, which is another topic all together) and that won't go away. But the consumers on the fence, those looking for high quality and innovation are going to start to fall on the production side, since it's quite frankly remarkable what can be had for much less than the custom price. I have gone from being totally fascinated with custom knives, to totally fascinated with high end production, materials and technology. Companies like Kershaw are trying so many new things that following their progress and dedication to the market becomes a hobby in and of itself. One little comparison I would like to close with is the affordable Groove from Kershaw. I sold my custom Bogi mini Cobra, because I couldn't justify wrapping my money up in a knife which DOES NOT flip as easy or fast and perform as well as the $85 Groove. Food for thought
 
Thats the thing. While most companies throw out hundreds of new and "innovative" models, CRK have a solid and timeless creation that doesnt need all the fancy mumbo jumbo to sell.

Most companies will discontinue products, so that when yours needs TLC, they dont have the parts anymore to help you. CRK keeps things fresh by adding inlays and graphics, but they dont need to change their overall designs to reach a new market.

Like the newest cell phones that come out, in a year they are outdated and uncool. the sebenza IMO will never be uncool or in need of fancy mechanics to sell better.
 
jarlaxle said:
Thats the thing. While most companies throw out hundreds of new and "innovative" models, CRK have a solid and timeless creation that doesnt need all the fancy mumbo jumbo to sell.

Most companies will discontinue products, so that when yours needs TLC, they dont have the parts anymore to help you. CRK keeps things fresh by adding inlays and graphics, but they dont need to change their overall designs to reach a new market.

Like the newest cell phones that come out, in a year they are outdated and uncool. the sebenza IMO will never be uncool or in need of fancy mechanics to sell better.
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They'll have the parts as long as they remain in business, I guess. I'm not saying they are not doing well, I'm just reflecting on my own thoughts as a consumer, and former sebenza owner
 
OregonEdge said:
They'll have the parts as long as they remain in business, I guess. I'm not saying they are not doing well, I'm just reflecting on my own thoughts as a consumer, and former sebenza owner
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Remember the tread about the guy with the Lum chinese from spyderco. I'll look for it.

I was just trying to say, that i dont think CR is being outdone, or that they are in any trouble of keeping up with the competition.

All good production companies have high end products. Many of which cost much more than a sebenza. These companies also play to the lower end market with oversea produced products.

I just feel like CR is sticking with a winner.
 
I think there is a big difference between the business plans of a small semi-custom shop like CRK and Kershaw. While both sell to "knife users," CRK continues to produce a small number of models, introducing a new one perhaps every year or two while Kershaw introduces a number of models each year.

Kershaw (or KAI USA Ltd) has annual sales of over $44 Million . . . that is a lot of knives! With that kind of volume they have to continue producing new products so their customers continue to return for new purchases.

Same business, different game plan and mindset.
 
Not to keep OE's thread off topic, but manta.com couldn't be more inaccurate with their info. Our parent company is Sansui Shoji K K? :eek: Well at least they got our address correct.
 
Thomas W said:
Actually that figure is not accurate.

We don't publicly share those numbers.
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That was from Hoovers and the point I was trying to make was that Kershaw and CRK are different types of companies with different goals. I don't think Chris Reeve wants to sell as many knives as Kershaw.
 
iamsmiling said:
That was from Hoovers and the point I was trying to make was that Kershaw and CRK are different types of companies with different goals. I don't think Chris Reeve wants to sell as many knives as Kershaw.
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I don't think I was asking if one company was trying to be like another, or match sales volume. I asking from a consumers perspective... if the gap in quality of fit and finish narrows between CRK versus say Kershaw who puts out knives for much less $... how will CRK prevent losing a % of their market share, though small.
 
OregonEdge said:
I don't think I was asking if one company was trying to be like another, or match sales volume.
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Exactly. If I remember correctly, Thomas W. (national sales manager) stated
Kershaw doesn't look from side to side to see what the other knife makers
are doing, they look to the front which is a pretty damn good philosophy IMHO. :thumbup:
 
Thomas W said:
Oh I bet they would.
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I think they value where their place is, but I know for sure they would double their operation if it meant they would triple sales. Chris Reeve himself has been very hands off for some time, and the business exists to make money. And to all the Sebenza cultists: I LOVE the Sebbie, so don't pile on ;)
 
First off, who is charge of their own manufacturing these days? Without being in control, how can you really do what CRK's does?

I still don't feel there are very many volume factories that even want to do what CRK's does. It just doesn't pay in volume manufacturing. I have said many times here, the boutique runs that we do, don't even keep the bathroom lights on, let alone pay the bills. We enjoy doing them, and probably push in the direction of CRK's, but it is not our primary focus. The spotlight needs to be on the volume, not this high end perfection production that CRK's does.

I don't feel you will ever see many that rival CRK's because it's a small niche market that requires skilled labor. Skilled labor and volume manufacturing...hmmm...that's a tough one. Skilled labor and custom built manufacturing is also tough.

In a way the high end knife business is as challenging to get into as volume biz. The critique is harsh, and the demands from the consumer are great, there is a very small customer base, it's difficult of getting placement, you have limited capacity, plus you need to overcome all of this by offering a dealer program. This type of production painstakingly tough, don't kid yourself.

The higher end production sprint run blades are really good these days, but I don't feel that they have hurt CRK's, or have in any way jeopardized their future.
 
Thomas W said:
First off, who is charge of their own manufacturing these days? Without being in control, how can you really do what CRK's does?

I still don't feel there are very many volume factories that even want to do what CRK's does. It just doesn't pay in volume manufacturing. I have said many times here, the boutique runs that we do, don't even keep the bathroom lights on, let alone pay the bills. We enjoy doing them, and probably push in the direction of CRK's, but it is not our primary focus. The spotlight needs to be on the volume, not this high end perfection production that CRK's does.

I don't feel you will ever see many that rival CRK's because it's a small niche market that requires skilled labor. Skilled labor and volume manufacturing...hmmm...that's a tough one. Skilled labor and custom built manufacturing is also tough.

In a way the high end knife business is as challenging to get into as volume biz. The critique is harsh, and the demands from the consumer are great, there is a very small customer base, it's difficult of getting placement, you have limited capacity, plus you need to overcome all of this by offering a dealer program. This type of production painstakingly tough, don't kid yourself.

The higher end production sprint run blades are really good these days, but I don't feel that they have hurt CRK's, or have in any way jeopardized their future.
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I wish I could jump in the time machine and drop in on CRK 10 or even 20 years from now (and a few other companies). I have my suspicions... but they will determine their own destiny. I bet this though... assuming they are around, they WILL have changed.
 
I'll be interested to see the future of these high end sprint runs. If they continue to be fun (though not that profitable) for large companies, then the numbers will still increase... still creating more and more competition for these smaller factories. I suggest that it doesn't take many special runs to create enough knives out there to give consumers other options.
 
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