Kids and mountain lions

kamagong

kamagong

Gold Member
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Jan 13, 2001
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Do you guys worry about mountain lions? When I'm by myself I'm not all that concerned about them, but they do make me think when I'm out and about with my daughter. At 2 years old I imagine she's a tempting target. When we're on a hike I make sure that she's always in front of me since I've read that mountain lions prefer to stalk and attack from behind. That's also why I still like my Blackjack with a single guard. I think that it would make a better weapon should I ever need to use it, even though I prefer a puukko for carry and use.

Is there anything else I should be doing? Carry a gun? Do they make mountain lion spray?
 
Depending on where you are (are lions common in your area?), it is wise to keep lions in mind. She would be a tempting target, but not so much with you close by. The bear pepper spray will work on lions too, so that's not a bad idea. I've got a 2yo and I'll be considering these same questions as summer rolls around.
 
When we go hiking here in Colorado, I keep my kids between me and my Wife, only problem is my youngest boy likes to be his own man and I have to scare him with Mountain Lion stories. I agree with xylum above, get Bear spray and carry a good knife like you are doing now. One thing is if a lion attacks, you have to respond very fast, they go for little kids and they are trying for the throat, if one bites down on a throat of a small child, it may prove fatal, so you may want to carry some quickclot and a dressing on your hikes to deal with heavy bleeding. I just bought an adventure medical kits trauma pack and it is my hiking gear now.
 
spareparts said:
Have you given thought to getting a dog? Dogs are a great deterrent.
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I would say they could be a distraction causing the Mountain lion to go for those instead of your kids but not a deterrent. A family close to us had one enter their yard after hearing their dog barking, it then attacked the dog ( a Labrador or Retriever if I remember correctly ) and carried it up a tree in the garden. The dog actually survived but the small girl who was the first to see the scene still has nightmares to this day.
 
I've had three very close encounters with mountain lions, that I know about. I have no doubt I've walked within a few feet of many and never knew it. Frankly, if a cat that size wants you, it's got you. Luckily they very rarely prey on humans, though small children are definitely more vulnerable.

Preventing an attack is really the only viable option, because once it begins it is EXTREMELY unlikely that you will be able to do anything about it. I once had a mountain lion in plain sight thirteen steps away from me, and a 9mm in my hands. When the cat made his move I realized with crystal clarity that had the cat attacked me, he would have gotten on me before I could have placed a shot. They are that fast.

Keeping your child close to you is the single biggest deterrent you can use. Cats are very discriminating about what they will attack, and size is a big part of their decision process. Mountain lions regularly prey on animals much larger than people, but those are prey animals the cat is familiar with and which they were most likely taught to prey on by their mother.

Apex predators cannot afford to take many chances, because if they get injured they run a very high likelihood of starving to death. Their willingness to attack a nontraditional prey is hugely dependent on their interpretation of how likely they are to get injured in the process, and in nature size is generally the most reliable determination of strength. By keeping your child close to you you impart the protection of your size. It works until the child strays far enough for the cat to decide it can grab the child and escape before you can reach it. Cats play the same game with other prey animals, so it's a decision matrix they are good at. The only thing that keeps it from happening more often is the natural shyness most cats have towards humans.

As far as weapons for protection...
Well, I don't think any weapon will protect your daughter against an attack, and certainly not a knife. Bear spray is the only think I can think of that you could use that wouldn't risk killing your daughter in the process of saving her, but it would have to be available for immediate deployment, and you'd have to practice with it the same way that law enforcement practices with handguns. Otherwise the event will be over before you even remember you've got it.

A large knife MIGHT provide a defense against an attack on you, providing the cat bungled the initial pounce. But the likelihood of that is so slim (both the attack and the bungling) that it hardly seems worth leaving your preferred knife at home to cary something you perceive as more weapon-capable.

Again, the risk is incredibly small. Keep your daughter close to you and if you choose, cary some bear spray. Past that the ball is really in the cat's corner.
 
spareparts said:
Have you given thought to getting a dog? Dogs are a great deterrent.
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No dogs. The wife and I aren't big animal people.

xylum said:
Depending on where you are (are lions common in your area?), it is wise to keep lions in mind. She would be a tempting target, but not so much with you close by. The bear pepper spray will work on lions too, so that's not a bad idea. I've got a 2yo and I'll be considering these same questions as summer rolls around.
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According to the DFG mountain lions are found throughout our whole state, including the areas we favor for our day hikes. I've never seen them, but I've seen deer. Since deer are their meal of choice I am sure they are around. The lions even have an exhibit dedicated to them in our local wildlife museum.

I hope the mountain lions have some sense and and pick a lunch that won't fight back. :o I've gotten some evil looks thrown my way when some people have seen me carrying a knife. I just shake my head, but then again these same people usually don't even have a bottle of water with them.
 
Yeah I wouldn't worry too much about weird looks from people who didn't bring water. If that's California DFG then, yes they're everywhere. sutured gave a good in depth response.
 
sutured said:
As far as weapons for protection...
Well, I don't think any weapon will protect your daughter against an attack, and certainly not a knife. Bear spray is the only think I can think of that you could use that wouldn't risk killing your daughter in the process of saving her, but it would have to be available for immediate deployment, and you'd have to practice with it the same way that law enforcement practices with handguns. Otherwise the event will be over before you even remember you've got it.

A large knife MIGHT provide a defense against an attack on you, providing the cat bungled the initial pounce. But the likelihood of that is so slim (both the attack and the bungling) that it hardly seems worth leaving your preferred knife at home to cary something you perceive as more weapon-capable.

Again, the risk is incredibly small. Keep your daughter close to you and if you choose, cary some bear spray. Past that the ball is really in the cat's corner.
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I think you're right. But even the DFG says that if attacked you should fight back. I'd much rather do so with a knife than with bare hands. And a knife is not ineffective, here's a story about a father who fought off a mountain lion when it attacked his son at Big Bend National Park.

Here's what the DFG has to say about keeping safe with mountain lions.

STAYING SAFE IN MOUNTAIN LION COUNTRY

Mountain lions are quiet, solitary and elusive, and typically avoid people.

Mountain lion attacks on humans are extremely rare. However, conflicts are increasing as the human population expands into mountain lion habitat.

Do not hike, bike, or jog alone.
Avoid hiking or jogging when mountain lions are most active—dawn, dusk, and at night.
Keep a close watch on small children.
Do not approach a mountain lion.
If you encounter a mountain lion, do not run; instead, face the animal, make noise and try to look bigger by waving your arms; throw rocks or other objects. Pick up small children.
If attacked, fight back.
If a mountain lion attacks a person, immediately call 911.
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I guess it's as good a start as any, although now I have to find a place that sells bear spray.
 
Carry bear spray but be ready to use it and be aware that it could drift back on you and your child. You might do fine but a child could get messed up since their respiratory system is weaker. Best practice in cat country is to also be noisy and project as a larger group. Cats don't want a lot of company. Keep your eyes open and keep talking or whistling.
 
I don't worry about them anymore; I addressed this sort of topic a while back and I decided that they are not anything for me to be sweating bullets over. I have had a few encounters, so I take them seriously, but I do not feel like I need to pack anything special for them. I can usually feel them coming anyway.

If it is a family hike, bear mace would probably be a good investment, but there really isn't too much you can do if you don't know that they are there. I take my little sisters hiking, but I do not know of much else I could do than pack mace and call it good.
 
When in tbe woods, mountains or desert, I keep my Model 629 loaded with 240 grain jhp's on a shoulder holster and its always ready to rock and roll. I dont mind the weight as I view it as peace of mind, guess im paranoid. No matter the predator, 2 legged, bear or lion, nothing makes me feel more at ease than 6 rounds off 44mag. Do yourself a favor, forget about trusting a knife to defend your family against a lion. Buy at least a 357mag or larger and practice, practice and practice some more, hopefully youll never need to use it.
 
DeadFall27 said:
I don't worry about them anymore; I addressed this sort of topic a while back and I decided that they are not anything for me to be sweating bullets over. I have had a few encounters, so I take them seriously, but I do not feel like I need to pack anything special for them. I can usually feel them coming anyway.

If it is a family hike, bear mace would probably be a good investment, but there really isn't too much you can do if you don't know that they are there. I take my little sisters hiking, but I do not know of much else I could do than pack mace and call it good.
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You do realize you're talking about nature's most proficient stalking predator right? Animals with heightened senses, above that of humans, routinely get stalked and killed but you usually can feel them coming... They've probably been around you and you had no idea.
 
Guns are nice to have, and a sixth sense is not something to be ignored. But really, the frequency of attacks on adults is so rare, and the likelihood of defending yourself successfully against an attack is so small, that it's just not something that deserves a lot of concern. I'm all for fighting back, and the better armed you are the better you can fight, but when you actually see one of these animals move you truly realize just how ineffective your handgun or knife or cane-sword or tomahawk will really be. Remember, that animal has killed every single meal its ever eaten since it was a kitten, and the vast majority of those meals were two to twelve times its weight. If a lion decides to prey on you...well good luck and all, but your uber-gun or ninja-knife may not make a lot of difference. It's certainly naive to believe that those things will actually guarantee your safety. A handgun in a holster is of fairly little value when 110 lbs of cat hits you from the side. You might get lucky. Or you, like the last seven-hundred things the cat pounced on, might not.

I'm not suggesting you leave your toys behind, but understand that when you go into the cats' territory, your existence is somewhat at the cats' mercy. The original question was how to protect a child, and to that I can only recommend transferring your adult protection to the child with physical proximity. Carrying a gun is fine, good even, and paying attention to the hairs raising on the back of your neck is always smart. But if you think there is something you can do or some weapon you can cary to guarantee your safety from a large cat, you're delusional.

As far as being able to "feel them coming"... well, don't count on it. They are alive and successfully reproducing because so many animals cannot "feel them coming", and it's unlikely you will be any different.

just saying
 
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They're all around here, but truth is you'd be incredibly lucky to even see one. So, no, I don't give them a second thought. I do keep the boy in sight when hiking though, for a plethora of reasons.

Of all the things in the world to worry about, mountain lions ain't one of them. ;)
 
Just have her wear a Halloween mask on the back of her head. The mountain lion will not know what to do! :p But seriously, making noise is good and I was gonna say pepper spray but I read about how it might not be good for kids which is a good point. I guess it is true that we are going into their territory and we just need to be vigilant. A life lived in fear is no life at all.
 
I dont want to sound bad but if a mountain lion attacks your daughter I dont think you have too much chance saving her. However if it were me, I would still have a large knife ready because I would not be able to live with myself knowing I could have had a better chance of saving her. I'm live in CA at the bottom of a mountain and I carry a large folder with a zip tie mod whenever I go up.
 
I remember reading an account of a Mountain Lion encounter by a woman who stood tall walked straight at it speaking softly and looking in its eyes.
Theory being that if you don't act like prey you will not be perceived as prey.
It worked for her on that occasion.
Who knows what a Puma thinks? What if its a big old male that just got a knock back off the Cougar.
What if the Cougar has cubs?kittens?? nearby.
How hungry is it?
 
I'm doing a solo overnighter in the deep desert Saturday. I'll let everyone here know if I get eaten.
 
BRL said:
I'm doing a solo overnighter in the deep desert Saturday. I'll let everyone here know if I get eaten.
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It's very open and exposed in the desert. Aren't you afraid of being hit by a meteorite? What meteorite precautions will you be taking?

Wouldn't you feel safer if you just went to the shopping mall instead?

:D



For the record, no one in Arizona has ever been hit by a meteorite. And no one in Arizona has ever been killed by a mountain lion.
There are, however, Arizona lawyers who specialize in "Wrongful death dog attacks."
 
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