Kids and snakes

M

ml100

Joined
Jul 19, 2005
Messages
766
Hi,

I am planning on a longer vacation in the U.S., to see the National Parks in the Southwest. It will be my wife and me and our kids. The kids will be 3 and 5 years old. Since we are planning to do a lot of outdoor activities, I wonder whether there is a realistic threat from venemous snakes. What do you tell your kids? I don't want them to be afraid. But on the other hand I can picture them roaming and running around a camp ground and that causes me unease. A threat from venemous snakes is nonexistent here in Europe (Switzerland), so the kids would be totally unexperienced with such a thing.
Am I overly concerned?
 
In an established campground with people regularly camping there, it is unlikely snakes will within the campground(not impossible just less likely) as the noise of people will keep them away for the most part. As for your children, just makes sure they know to watch were they step, don't put their hands or feet in any holes in the ground or under rocks, and if they come across a snake DO NOT TOUCH IT OR GO ANYWHERE NEAR IT, and back away very slowly no sudden movements while facing the snake, immediately tell you, and you tell the campground supervisor or Fish and Game about the location of the snake. Also be mindfull of bees/killerbees, scorpions, spiders, ticks and other poisonous/harmful bugs.
Here are some links w/ useful info:
http://www.snakesofarizona.com/venomous.htm
http://cals.arizona.edu/main/spotlight/venomous-poisonous-animals-arizona-quick-reference
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/first-aid-snake-bites/FA00047
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/first-aid-spider-bites/FA00048
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/scorpion-stings/DS01113/DSECTION=symptoms
 
Dave nailed it very well. In the general SW US you are looking at mostly rattlesnakes of several species. They generally like shady spots during the day so step wide of bushes, overhanging rocks- do not place hands anywhere you cannot see.

There are also a number of nonvenomous there that are interesting but an interest best taken at a distance or in a zoo environment.

From the title, I was hopping this was a recomendation for pets ;)

Bill
 
Like most things thought to be a threat to those visiting the US from Europe, the threat of venomous snakes is just short of a phobia. Dave did well but the threat is nearly non existent from most all of the threats he mentioned. I have spent time in many of the western parks and can say I've never met a venomous snake. In fact the only poisonous snakes I've met were a few copperheads on the Appalachian Trail as a kid and a couple of rattlers and a PO'ed Cottonmouth in Fla. Dave's warning to the kids should be more than sufficient but don't scare them....
 
Mal2 said:
Like most things thought to be a threat to those visiting the US from Europe, the threat of venomous snakes is just short of a phobia. Dave did well but the threat is nearly non existent from most all of the threats he mentioned. I have spent time in many of the western parks and can say I've never met a venomous snake. In fact the only poisonous snakes I've met were a few copperheads on the Appalachian Trail as a kid and a couple of rattlers and a PO'ed Cottonmouth in Fla. Dave's warning to the kids should be more than sufficient but don't scare them....
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I agree, you should not FEAR snakes, nor scare your children. I did state the likeliness of an encounter is low, but it is possible, and educating yourself on how to handle said situation is a good idea. People encounter snakes and get bit by snakes all the time, albeit mostly by being careless and arrogant. It is just info to keep in back of your mind. Just like in bear country, you shouldn't walk around paranoid about bear attacks, but the "Eh, it won't happen to me, it no big deal," attitude is a dangerous mindset as well. I'm glad you have never be bitten by a snake or seen many of them(neither have I), plenty of others have though. You should always be aware(not afraid) of the enviroment you are in and the dangers it can possess.
 
I agree with the others.. advise, and educate. maybe see if you watch videos, dvd, or read books with them about venomous snakes of the areas you will go to , how best to avoid them, and the ramification if bit.
Again the likely hood is minimal, but knowledge is power, Good luck
 
I've lived in the SW for 20+ years and my job as a Border Patrol Agent puts me in their turf on a daily basis. I've walked hundreds of miles through some of the best rattlesnake environments in the US during the day, at night, and just about any condition you can imagine. I've come across snakes (venomous and non-venomous) countless times and have never come close to being bitten. The posters above me have put out some great advice. First and foremost, tell your little one's that if they see a snake, LEAVE it alone. You'd be surprised how many kids have not learned a respect (some call it fear) of snakes. Many want to pick them up and play with them; I was one of them :) second, like the others have said, don't step or put your hands in areas you cant see and access beforehand and don't be in a hurry. Snakes want to remain unseen so they don't get killed. Just about every predator in the SW eats snakes including venomous ones; everything from hawks, coyotes, to road runners, to skunks, to javelina, to badgers. They are on everyone's menu. This being the case I've walked right past rattlers within a foot or two that remain completely still and silent. Some folks attribute this to some evolutionary quirk that will ultimately create the Super Zombie Rattler that strikes before he rattles. It's nothing more than them hoping not to be seen in the hopes you'll walk past without a confrontation. The vast majority of people bitten in the US (which is VERY low) are people trying to kill them or handling them. In short, if you teach your kids to respect them if they see them and give them their distance and to walk carefully, not put their hands where they cant see, you’ll be fine. Here are some of the one’s you might encounter (I also like to photos them):
Black Tailed Rattlesnake - Very un-aggressive
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Western Diamondback Rattler - Can be aggressive if cornered - I was only 2 feet from this one, very un-aggressive.
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Mottled Rock Rattlesnake - Very rarely seen even by those looking.
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Sonoran Desert Sidewinder - mainly in southern CA and AZ. small and run away at the first chance they get.
3809825835_a306a2d16a_o.jpg


Jason
 
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I took a southwest vacation two years ago.Stopped at several national parks in Utah. I was looking for rattlesnakes. I wanted to see one badly. No luck.

The western United States is jaw droppingly stunning.
 
If I can thorw this out. I am in the Marines and live in the field for the majority of my time. I was never introduced to snakes when I was younger and now fear them more than bullets and IED's. I have tried time and again to find ways to overcome my fear of snkaes but I just can't seem to shake it. Does not help when your friends killa rattle snake when you are asleep and put it on your chest. I don't hate snakes and am actualy quite fasinated by them. I don't try to kill them when I see them and would like nothing more than to avoide them. I know we say they are more afraid of us but in my case I doubt that very much. I have been bow hunting before and stayed in my tree stand for hours becasue a rattle snake had taken up residence under me. I would find a way to expose your kids to snakes in a positive way. If time permits take your kids to a llocal zoo that is near where you plan on camping. There is a good chance there will be a reptile display and possibly even a herpetologist that may give a complete class on what to look for and what to avoid. I love the outdoors and am constantly hiking, camping or kayaking. I wish I had been exposed to snakes in a positive way when I was younger.
 
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I grew up in south Alabama and as a kid had numerous rattlesnake encounters. my dad taught me very early in life how to watch for snakes when walking. Fight the tendency to look at your feet and where your next step is going to be placed (unless stepping over a log or other debris.) Scan your path about 6' to 10' in front of you. If you must walk through high vegetation, probe in front of you with a staff or handy stick, causing just enough noise and vibration to warn snakes so that they will move off. The worst thing you can do is surprise a snake within striking range. If you can see the snake beyond striking distance he is very little threat to you (unless you do something really stupid.) This technique served me well, I saw a lot of snakes but never got close enough to be in real danger.

My first rattlesnake encounter when I was alone that I can remember was at age 5, and by then I had been well indoctrinated in how to react. I know people who still kill every rattlesnake they see. I let them crawl or swim away unless they are around a residence. They are one of the things that help keep the outdoors interesting, kinda the southeast version of the grizzly.
 
Jasonp, GREAT photos. The Mottled is a prize to find. My namewright(Lampropeltis Mexicana Alterna) Grey Banded Kingsnake, is the non venomous mimic to the mottled.

The Green is the most dangerous of the buzztails in the SW and also one of the hardest to find.

Vipers prize their venom and only use it for food or fear of life- which can be caused by a careless mistake on our part.

NEVER handle wild snakes but at the same to to show the non aggression of many. There are MANY stories of kids picking snakes up and never being bitten. Especially Corals- as they are so colorful and small. Most accidental bites come from putting hands near the bottom of bushes or overhang rocks. Snakes do not understand mistakes.

Most bites in general are from picking up or stepping on the snake. Personally, I have had my hands inches from the face of a Copperhead picking Oak boards off a stack for fencing and was not bitten. I would never do that willingly but I was impressed that it chose not to bite me.

Bill
 
lmalterna said:
Jasonp, GREAT photos. The Mottled is a prize to find. My namewright(Lampropeltis Mexicana Alterna) Grey Banded Kingsnake, is the non venomous mimic to the mottled.

The Green is the most dangerous of the buzztails in the SW and also one of the hardest to find.

Vipers prize their venom and only use it for food or fear of life- which can be caused by a careless mistake on our part.

NEVER handle wild snakes but at the same to to show the non aggression of many. There are MANY stories of kids picking snakes up and never being bitten. Especially Corals- as they are so colorful and small. Most accidental bites come from putting hands near the bottom of bushes or overhang rocks. Snakes do not understand mistakes.

Most bites in general are from picking up or stepping on the snake. Personally, I have had my hands inches from the face of a Copperhead picking Oak boards off a stack for fencing and was not bitten. I would never do that willingly but I was impressed that it chose not to bite me.

Bill
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Your namesake sir :) I found it a few years ago near Del Rio Texas. They're tough to find, I've looked for years and found four..most taxonomic sources have dropped the mexicana now, they just refer to them as L. alterna.
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I was bitten on the hand when I was about 7 by a cottonmouth. I was catching tadpoles with a net in a ditch and scooped up a cottonmouth un knowingly. When I put the net down and picked it up to get the tadpoles out it tagged me in the hand. I have also been bitten twice in the boot while on patrols. I wear steel toed boots and in the summer months around Camp Lejeune I wear snake chaps under my uniform. Lejeune is swarming with copperheads.
 
Jason,
Thank you for that pic- I kept and bred them for a few years/ Along with Variables(Thayeri) and found Pyromelena Knoblochi to be the perfect pet for my kids. I knew about the name change but I was using it and stuck with it. They are beautiful and very good pets. A little hard to switch the babies over to mice but we have skinks here that are good for scenting.

Adam- a bite on the hand can be extremely painful and dangerous for losing a finger. I hope you made it through OK. I followed a story some years ago of a Dr. in Canada that was keeping Copperheads. He caught a fang one day on the finger and decided to stay at home and document the effects by picture and keeping his vital stats. After the finger swelled to the point of splitting down the side, he asked his wife to drive him to the hospital.

If you get tagged, there is the chance it might be a "dry" bite but seek attention immediately. Once the symptoms get bad, it might be too late to save that finger/hand/foot.
Bill
 
Thank you for your advice.
I've been to the U.S. before several times and never encountered a snake. Personally I wouldn't worry. It is just that I am obviously overly considerate when it comes to the safety of my kids. Taking them to the zoo is actually a pretty goog idea.
Anyway I'm looking forward to roam all the southwestern National Parks.
 
What time of year are you planning on coming? In the Fall and Winter, it is VERY UNLIKELY that you will see a snake since they are cold blooded and will probably be hibernating in their dens. I wouldn't worry about it too much either way as snakes are very good at being hidden and typically avoid confrontation.
 
Plans are to go in July / August. I guess they finished their hibernating by then:D.
 
ml100 said:
Plans are to go in July / August. I guess they finished their hibernating by then:D.
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Actually in July and August in the SW; that is the hottest part of the year and most venomous spps. are only active at night or early mornings during that time of year. They come out of brumation (hibernation for snakes) around late March or April and are most active around then to about early June. In July and Aug. be prepared, it's HOT.
 
my immediate experience may not help you specifically, but for generally dealing with the diamond-heads -- I grew up in the swamps of south Mississippi, so had many snakes to deal with --water moccasins (cottonmouths), copperheads, rattlers, etc. -- but never had a problem -- used to sit and watch the moccasins and only got struck at once, but was wearing a boot. As said, most snakes will know you and your kids are coming from a long ways away and will shy off. And as said, keep hands away from sheltered areas -- rock ledges, downed logs, holes.

I will impart a little trail apochryphal wisdom passed down from the swamp generations: the first guy wakes up the snake, the second pisses it off, the third gets it. So always take point.

Seriously, at one point in my life, I had an Austrian fiancee when living in NOLA. We went into the woods/swamps all the time, and with a little common-sense instruction, she did fine -- although she never seemed to get that gators are a lot quicker than they look.
 
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