Kiss

Silver Needle

Silver Needle

Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
5,802

Whoops! I forgot the periods, I meant for the title to be K.I.S.S., as in Keep It Super Simple.

This thread goes against our creative and grail-seeking nature, but I was inspired by this selfless post from our very own ncrockclimb in the reasonable wishlist thread:

"My wish list has less to do with what I want for me, but what I want for S!K.

Guy has refined the designs that are out now and they look AWESOME. He has filled a few holes in the product offering and now has a VERY complete line that stands up well against other brands in this market segment. IMHO, right now they don't need to introduce more models.

My "wish list" for S!K is for them to increase the availability of their product / increase their production capacity without decreasing quality. Guy and Ellie are doing a great job, and I want to see them continue to succeed as they grow their company."


I love and have jumped on board with new model ideas and suggestions for tweaks and changes to existing models. Clearly the GSO 8, new handle designs and edge thickness are proof that Guy values and responds to customer and user feedback. I enjoy the speculation and hypothetical dreams that get suggested along with the plea for real changes. I'll also add that Guy seems to be the type that is never, ever satisfied with "good enough" and I think that takes a special kind of attitude, especially when you have a product that cannot be kept in stock!

Now what is the point I'm getting at? I would like to propose the idea of keeping things simple. I'll preface this next part with my usual disclaimer that I don't know the first thing about running a business or designing knives (and Guy's own preferences to appease his customer base), but how would it affect customers if the only steels he ever used were 3v and 20cv? What if there were only 2, 3 or 4 handle options with 1 or 2 sheath options? The Fiddleback "production line" seems to be doing fine with 2 handle and 1 sheath option. Guy has made a lot of really neat options available, but if the GSO options were like the SK line would the trade off in order processing be worth the lack of variety? If you've visited any part of the internet that discusses SURVIVE! you may have heard someone mention how they dislike the wait time. I've never heard anyone say they chose a GSO over an ESEE or LT Wright because Guy offered red and black G10 handles.

I do love my GSO with red linen handles, but I'd happily have chosen from any options available. I personally don't use a bowdrill divot or ferro notch, so I'm completely biased in that aspect. And again, all of this post is just Silver Needle rambling and speculating so feel free to boo me off stage or throw a tomato in my direction :D

Was the array of options what brought you to SURVIVE! ? Would it turn you away if there were less options available?
 
Boo!!!! Jk
No I wouldn't turn them away if there weren't as many options. Their function and overall ability as a reliable survival knife won me over.
The multiple options is just icing on the cake.
 
I love blaze orange G10, but I would be OK with 2 steels, 4-6 handle colors and black or brown sheaths. This would be even more appealing if it meant less lead time and more available product. My 5.1 cuts the same with blaze g10 as it does with green canvas.
 
Riz2530 said:
I love blaze orange G10, but I would be OK with 2 steels, 4-6 handle colors and black or brown sheaths. This would be even more appealing if it meant less lead time and more available product. My 5.1 cuts the same with blaze g10 as it does with green canvas.
Click to expand...

Aw, you really understand me :D

I wouldn't suggest changes because I don't think they can handle it, but to streamline options with three idea of making it more efficient to get that great product out to eager customers.

Haha yeah! I do believe a GSO would cut just about as well despite the handle colors :p
 
I believe the "leveling off" period is coming. Don't get me wrong (and you know me Silver), I love S!K and Guy is miles ahead of many other makers and companies that are far larger than he is, but at some point, there will be only so many models that he can produce without either hiring someone else to help, or the wait time getting longer. He has never struck me as a guy who will ever sacrifice quality. Then again, that stubbornness and relentless quest for perfection has put more than one maker out of business.

Factor in the leveling off as fans buy up the newer models and the trading goes back and forth online for a year or so, and then what? How many 5.1's, 4.7's, or 3.5's can Silver or Hale Storm buy? Rhetorical question of course but you get the idea.

Buying and selling at S!K and the secondary market was at a fever pitch when Guy started. I know because I bought several S!K's during that time. That will happen again as the new models hit the streets and guys need the money, or just don't like the model in hand, or just have too many knives and the secondary market prices are high and they decide to sell. That settles in time. Look online now and see how many S!K knives you see for sale now from the old models. Not many. Those of us that have them are keeping them.

So, when the fever subsides, Guy will not have to lay anyone off or worry about all the overhead and bills from the "expansion".
Better for us to wait and let Guy do what Guy does. Produce a very high quality knife at an exceptional price. The alternative to waiting is for Guy to get too big too fast. When the lull comes, and it does for everyone (Emerson comes to mind - awesome blades but not much presence these days), Guy will be ready for it, and probably welcome the needed rest.

It seems to me he's smarter than most, by staying in his comfort zone.

And all the options (as other makers have seen and duplicated) work well and boost sales. That is a proven fact in the blade world.

I'll wait. Survive Knives have always been worth waiting for.

My $.02
 
Hale Storm said:
I believe the "leveling off" period is coming. Don't get me wrong (and you know me Silver), I love S!K and Guy is miles ahead of many other makers and companies that are far larger than he is, but at some point, there will be only so many models that he can produce without either hiring someone else to help, or the wait time getting longer. He has never struck me as a guy who will ever sacrifice quality. Then again, that stubbornness and relentless quest for perfection has put more than one maker out of business.

Factor in the leveling off as fans buy up the newer models and the trading goes back and forth online for a year or so, and then what? How many 5.1's, 4.7's, or 3.5's can Silver or Hale Storm buy? Rhetorical question of course but you get the idea.

Buying and selling at S!K and the secondary market was at a fever pitch when Guy started. I know because I bought several S!K's during that time. That will happen again as the new models hit the streets and guys need the money, or just don't like the model in hand, or just have too many knives and the secondary market prices are high and they decide to sell. That settles in time. Look online now and see how many S!K knives you see for sale now from the old models. Not many. Those of us that have them are keeping them.

So, when the fever subsides, Guy will not have to lay anyone off or worry about all the overhead and bills from the "expansion".
Better for us to wait and let Guy do what Guy does. Produce a very high quality knife at an exceptional price. The alternative to waiting is for Guy to get too big too fast. When the lull comes, and it does for everyone (Emerson comes to mind - awesome blades but not much presence these days), Guy will be ready for it, and probably welcome the needed rest.

It seems to me he's smarter than most, by staying in his comfort zone.

And all the options (as other makers have seen and duplicated) work well and boost sales. That is a proven fact in the blade world.

I'll wait. Survive Knives have always been worth waiting for.

My $.02
Click to expand...

Great points here!
I'm hoping there will be some free time for the company in the future because we all need a break once in awhile.
I also believe that they are miles ahead of a lot of companies and I honestly can't wait to see what the future brings. I'm hoping to see light sabers by fall 2017.
 
Well said Hale storm.

I don't believe I would be tuned away. The quality and craftsmanship exceeds my expectations of any of my knives for their size. And I don't even have them all YET.
 
The Fiddleback comparison is not really apropriate as Andy's business model was and is completely different than Guy's. Andy began making knives by offering a couple of steels, and hand making handles from a variety of different natural and synthetic materials. Andy grew his line by adding knife models, and his initial sales option were the Fiddleback Friday sales thread. He has expanded production by adding apprentices to his shop, and he has a few dealers that he uses to help market his knives. He gradually grew from making batches of 5 to 10 knives per week to now making over forty a week. Only recently did Andy break out into the Mid - Tech knife marketplace. Andy built his following with the hand made handle models, then expanded into Mid-Tech.

Conversely, Guy began and lives in the Mid-Tech space. I also think that Guy has imparted exceptional design and quality standards into his product line, and this is what sets him apart in my mind. I do not know if Guy can impart those same standards in a an apprentice or two to help him to get knives produced faster, but that might help S! meet the demand for current and new models. I love it that Guy is always looking for better materials and steels, and this makes following the company very interesting. I love that Guy does not rest just because a certain model is widely accepted i.e. GSO 5.1. If Guy finds a way to make it better, he does. Of the three GSO 5.1s that I have owned or currently own, each one has a number etched on it. I would not part with these knives for twice the price that I paid for them, no matter how well the new designed 5.1 is received. I suspect that the ergonomic changes to the GSO design are an improvement, but they will never make the original design obsolete in my book.

At whatever production level Guy determines is a good equilibrium, those decisions can only be made by Guy. At some point to increase production might result in decreased quality. It is ultimately up to Guy to make these decisions. I have no problem with the wait at present, but I have S! Knives in a variety of sizes that I can use on a daily basis. My hope is that guy never compromises on his exacting quality standards, because each of my knives has been worth the wait. But I understand that there are those that just won't accept the wait and move on. The way I look at it, it will be their loss.

Rant over.
 
Great points, Mac! The Fiddleback comparison wasn't an exact one and didn't mean to compare business models. I definitely don't want to propose lower quality for any reason, including speed. My thought of simplifying was to suggest the same impeccable quality while streamlining assembly and output. Please don't think I'm trying to coerce Guy, I'm just thinking outloud. I'm really glad you out this in perspective.
 
Right now the big push is on getting orders out in time for Christmas. After that, we will announce some big plans for the future which should address the issues mentioned here.
 
SURVIVE! Ellie said:
Right now the big push is on getting orders out in time for Christmas. After that, we will announce some big plans for the future which should address the issues mentioned here.
Click to expand...

Please don't take this thread as a complaint!!! My ideas may have sounded better in my head than typed out, I've just been noticing a very creative mood in the forum and didn't want Guy to feel like he's getting stretched too thin. Whatever you 2 decide is the best direction for SURVIVE! will be fully supported by Silver Needle.
 
SURVIVE! Ellie said:
Right now the big push is on getting orders out in time for Christmas. After that, we will announce some big plans for the future which should address the issues mentioned here.
Click to expand...

As it should be Ellie. The S! of today is nothing like the S! of old before you came to the company. Guy was so busy trying to get knives out, and there was nobody taking care of communication regarding where in production knives were. Your presence here makes all of the difference in the world in my book. Thank you for taking care of us, and thanks to Guy for hiring you. It has made a world of difference to me.
 
Silver Needle said:
Please don't take this thread as a complaint!!! My ideas may have sounded better in my head than typed out, I've just been noticing a very creative mood in the forum and didn't want Guy to feel like he's getting stretched too thin. Whatever you 2 decide is the best direction for SURVIVE! will be fully supported by Silver Needle.
Click to expand...

No worries, I just figured I'd mention that we do have a neat plan. Just haven't had a chance to implement it yet.

McVeyMac said:
thanks to Guy for hiring you. It has made a world of difference to me.
Click to expand...

HA! He didn't have much choice in the matter. My "interview" went along the lines of, "You need help so I'm just going to hang out here until you fire me."

We could still use an extra communications person to help with emails when I don't have time to empty the inbox. It is nice that I can come here or social media and answer one question for several people, instead of answering one email at a time.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top