Kitchen Knife question-- White steel vs O1 steel

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Jul 3, 2014
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I've recently gotten obsessed with paring knives. I'm thinking of commissioning paring knife blades from Jim Wester of North Bay Forge. It'll be profiled off of a 3.5" Nogent Sabatier blade blank. It'll likely be hand forged W1 or O1 steel. Any thoughts? When I look into the cost of having the blades made, handle materials, and time--I wonder if it'd be cheaper to just go with a nice Japanese petty knife. I'd love your thoughts on hand forged W1/O1 steel vs white steel, blue steel... Anyways, it's a nutty project. I'm not sure if I should just abort now.

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Not to hijack the thread, but I've never used O1 before. How does it compare to the standards like 52100, W2 and 1095 on kitchen knives?

- Chris
 
Not to hijack the thread, but I've never used O1 before. How does it compare to the standards like 52100, W2 and 1095 on kitchen knives?

- Chris

O1 is a close second to 52100, W2, and should hold an edge a bit longer than 1095 as it ads some alloying for wear resistance. It's not quite as fine grained as the other steels but quite close. It has almost no corrosion resistance, but patinas nicely. I have made quite a few O1 kitchen knives and no complaints. You would have to go to crazy high grit stones to see a difference in sharpness.
 
If it weren't for the poor corrosion resistance, I think it would be more popular. You do have to look after it more than any other steel, (at least the common ones.) it's a pretty versatile knife steel.
 
If price is a consideration, buying something already made could be much more economical.

I don't think the differences in steels are nearly as pronounced on paring or petty knives compared to some of the larger users in the kitchen. With that said, I've not used O1 but have used various White and Blue steels pretty extensively.

I love White #2, Blue #2, and Super Blue paper steels, but I am not a huge fan of them on paring knives. Where as the reactivity on most knives I use is a non-issue, on a paring knife I prefer a knife with corrosion resistance because my usage is different as is the amount of attention given to the blade. White and Blue take very aggressively cutting edges, but they are super reactive steels (like, cut something like a grapefruit and 5 minutes into the work you are doing you will notice a patina is already starting to form).

To date, the best paring knife I have found is this. I have had maybe 12-15-ish paring knives of all prices and thus far I've not found anything I like more. As it is VG-10, it keeps a reasonably good edge, it has very good toughness, and great corrosion resistance. I've been eyeing a few Super Blue paring knives for a while, but I honestly can't tell you I see a huge difference between White #2 versus VG-10 on that kind of knife (now on a 240mm chef's knife that's a very different story!!!)
 
I saw a wonderful post that details the difference on the two. but mostly kitchen knives are best with white steel.
 
I think on carter cutlerys website these steels are discussed and compared.
Murray makes a fine kitchen knife. I only have one, a general use type.
I do not allow my wife or kids to use it. Works great with everything i need.
If you want the custom paring knife, i say go for it. We use rada paring knives.
Very plain, but my wife loves them.
 
I have done some in 15n20, which is a really tough steel, and holds an edge reasonably well. It resists chipping on bones, cores, or other hard contact even at Rc62. It patinas quickly though. I just did a few in AEB-l waiting for handles. The bottom line is the knife with the best heat treatment wins. If the heat treatment is excellent in all of the steels, then you might see some differences.
 
O1 makes a very nice kitchen blade, whether 3" long or 9" long. With proper heat treat you can get a blade with Rc63-64 hardness that will hold an edge for a long time. O1 is tough enough at this hardness to take a very fine edge. It is much easier to work with than 52100(do not need to normalize) and 1095 and W2(any medium speed oil works well). O1 is easy to find in thickness from 1/64" to 1". If you shop, you will pay about $3 for the steel to make a blade with 4"(1.25 width) edge and 4"(0.75" width)tang. Heat treat for 3/32" or less is quick and easy, heat kiln to 1475F/800C, add knife, monitor until blade is even temperature, soak 6 to 8 minutes, quench in 120F oil, temper at 300F for an hour, cold water quench and scrub off scale, temper for final hardness, for me 350F yields Rc62-63. For small knives, grind style makes a big difference. I prefer a scandi grind with total edge angle between 15 and 20 degrees. Even with 1/16" material, you will have a very stiff blade that will slice almost anything in your kitchen.
For those who want something more exotic, try 1.2519/ 110WCrV5 tool steel, a chrome/tungsten cold work tool steel that is close to O-7. It is recommended for industrial blades, taps, dies, and reamers. typical composition:
C: 1.10 Si: 0.25 Mn: 0.3 Cr: 1.20 V: 0.20 W: 1.30
if you do some exploring, you will find the composition very similar to Hitachi Aogami1 or Aogami2. It seems about as easy to find and cheaper. i guess you could call it super O-1 or 52100 on steroids. Heat treat is the same as O1.
JMHO of a tired old sailor glad to be home from the sea.
 
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