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Kitchen Knife Set
- Thread starter Shrike9
- Start date
- Joined
- Apr 27, 1999
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Henckels are excellent kitchen knives. They use a mystery stainless that is cryo treated. They take a very sharp edge, but the steel is not as hard as premium belt knives. Henckels serve their purpose well.
For practical purposes I wouldn't buy a whole set of Henckels. I prefer the design from other makers who charge less. I also wouldn't buy a whole set from a store, I would look to the internet for much better value. For example look at the Forschner (aka Victorinox) sets at the knifecenter of the internet: http://www.knifecenter.com/knifecenter/forsch/block.html
I don't think the Forschner steel is quite as good as the Henckels', but I think the overall knife designs are better and better looking (they also cost a lot less). I suspect the look of the knives and knife holder may be more important to your knife than the steel. The rosewood handles of the Forschners are rather attractive and hold up comparitively well to washing. (Word of warning--don't put kitchen knives with attractive handles in the dishwasher, I've even seen the composition knife handles delaminate in the dishwasher).
I would try and avoid knives with forged blades with bolsters (that reinforcement at the base of the blade). Blades that are used with a cutting board need to be sharpened from tip to heel to cut flat on the cutting board. Bolsters may look like a "quality" feature, but they get in the way during use.
If your wife doesn't care about nice looking handles I would look at the Spyderco knives at Chai cutlery:
http://www.chaicutlery.com/spyderco.html#Kitchen
The steel in these knives is the best I've seen in a current production knife. They are giant razors.
For practical purposes I wouldn't buy a whole set of Henckels. I prefer the design from other makers who charge less. I also wouldn't buy a whole set from a store, I would look to the internet for much better value. For example look at the Forschner (aka Victorinox) sets at the knifecenter of the internet: http://www.knifecenter.com/knifecenter/forsch/block.html
I don't think the Forschner steel is quite as good as the Henckels', but I think the overall knife designs are better and better looking (they also cost a lot less). I suspect the look of the knives and knife holder may be more important to your knife than the steel. The rosewood handles of the Forschners are rather attractive and hold up comparitively well to washing. (Word of warning--don't put kitchen knives with attractive handles in the dishwasher, I've even seen the composition knife handles delaminate in the dishwasher).
I would try and avoid knives with forged blades with bolsters (that reinforcement at the base of the blade). Blades that are used with a cutting board need to be sharpened from tip to heel to cut flat on the cutting board. Bolsters may look like a "quality" feature, but they get in the way during use.
If your wife doesn't care about nice looking handles I would look at the Spyderco knives at Chai cutlery:
http://www.chaicutlery.com/spyderco.html#Kitchen
The steel in these knives is the best I've seen in a current production knife. They are giant razors.
- Joined
- Oct 3, 1998
- Messages
- 4,842
After using Henckels and other integral-bolstered kitchen knives, I've started leaning towards non-bolstered kitchen knives.
Integral bolstered kitchen knives tend to be thick-edged, especially near the very back (by the bolster) where you do most of your chopping. Sure, the knife is hefty and looks fancy, but I want something that'll cut. The "cheaper", non-bolstered knives like the Forshners and Spydercos that Jeff Clark mentioned really do outperform those bolstered knives, sometimes quite handily.
I'm going to start switching to Spyderco, which I suspect has the best steel of the bunch.
Joe
Integral bolstered kitchen knives tend to be thick-edged, especially near the very back (by the bolster) where you do most of your chopping. Sure, the knife is hefty and looks fancy, but I want something that'll cut. The "cheaper", non-bolstered knives like the Forshners and Spydercos that Jeff Clark mentioned really do outperform those bolstered knives, sometimes quite handily.
I'm going to start switching to Spyderco, which I suspect has the best steel of the bunch.
Joe
- Joined
- Oct 13, 1998
- Messages
- 676
You might also want to give a look at the new A G Russell kitchen series. Although the steel isn't specifically identified, I contacted them, and A.G(I always like getting e-mail from the president) said that it was a Tungsten-bearing high carbon stain-resistant steel. Take a look at: http://www.agrussell.com/agrussell/agkt.html
Aaron
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amacks@nist.gov
Don't forget to pay your taxes...they eventually become my knives
Aaron
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amacks@nist.gov
Don't forget to pay your taxes...they eventually become my knives
>> She saw a 9 piece set of Henckels for $375 at a knife store in Denver
You guys need to get real. Go to the bookstore, buy a Blade magazine and find a wholesale knife dealer. You can save yourself $100 off of buying in the high rent district of Denver. But don't tell your wife, so you can use that extra money to buy yourself a knife or two
You guys need to get real. Go to the bookstore, buy a Blade magazine and find a wholesale knife dealer. You can save yourself $100 off of buying in the high rent district of Denver. But don't tell your wife, so you can use that extra money to buy yourself a knife or two
- Joined
- Feb 4, 1999
- Messages
- 5,786
I own the Spyderco Santoku Japanese chef's knife and have reviewed it on several occasions. Bottom line: the handle is very comfortable, the Santoku is the ultimate kitchen pattern, and at Spyderco's price everyone should be using it as their primary kitchen tool. 'Nuff said...
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My Custom Kydex Sheath page:
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/kydex.html
Palmer College of Chiropractic
On Two Wheels
agocs_s@dd.palmer.edu
Madpoet (Mel Sorg, Jr.) Tribute page:
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/madpoet/main.html
- Joined
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- Messages
- 6,117
The German knife company Messermeister markets a line of Seki Japanese cutlery that look really nice. The Germans and I admire Seki knives. See this link to Knifecenter of the internet.
http://knifecenter.com/knifecenter/messerm/opsets.html
[This message has been edited by Jeff Clark (edited 11 November 1999).]
http://knifecenter.com/knifecenter/messerm/opsets.html
[This message has been edited by Jeff Clark (edited 11 November 1999).]
Me, I'm not even looking at kitchen knives which don't have a bolster seamlessly joined to the blade, as it's so much easier to keep them clean that way.
I'll admit I haven't got such a knife with a blade thinner than 1.5 mm and at least one is about 3 mm, but I don't find that excessive.
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Urban Fredriksson
www.canit.se/%7Egriffon/
"Smooth and serrated blades cut in two entirely different fashions."
- The Teeth of the Tyrannosaurs, Scientific American, Sep 1999
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The best is to have no bolster. If ease of cleaning is your concern you get the professional knives with molded handles and no bolsters.
All this is with the qualification of ...if you are going to use the blade against a cutting board. A butcher, breaking, boning or paring knife isn't used to slice and dice against a board surface. While I don't look for a bolster on these knives, I don't avoid a bolster on them. The most efficient way to prepare a lot of dishes is to use a chef's knife, chinese cleaver, or santoku and a cutting board. This gets you high productivity in slicing and dicing. These knives shouldn't have bolsters. You need to be able to get all parts of your sharp edge in contact with the cutting board. A bolster needs to be ground down to allow the heel of the blade to be sharpened level with the rest of the blade.
All this is with the qualification of ...if you are going to use the blade against a cutting board. A butcher, breaking, boning or paring knife isn't used to slice and dice against a board surface. While I don't look for a bolster on these knives, I don't avoid a bolster on them. The most efficient way to prepare a lot of dishes is to use a chef's knife, chinese cleaver, or santoku and a cutting board. This gets you high productivity in slicing and dicing. These knives shouldn't have bolsters. You need to be able to get all parts of your sharp edge in contact with the cutting board. A bolster needs to be ground down to allow the heel of the blade to be sharpened level with the rest of the blade.
Molded handles often meet the blade at a 90 deg angle, so there's a place where stuff will like to accumulate. A smooth seamless join is better.
The second part of your message I don't understand, so I guess I don't understand the term "bolster" (or perhaps "integral bolster", perhaps someone could explain, for example by pointing to some pictures?) here. I'd say that the basic geometry of my knives with bolsters where the handle joins the blade is about the same as for those without.
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Urban Fredriksson
www.canit.se/%7Egriffon/
"Smooth and serrated blades cut in two entirely different fashions."
- The Teeth of the Tyrannosaurs, Scientific American, Sep 1999
The second part of your message I don't understand, so I guess I don't understand the term "bolster" (or perhaps "integral bolster", perhaps someone could explain, for example by pointing to some pictures?) here. I'd say that the basic geometry of my knives with bolsters where the handle joins the blade is about the same as for those without.
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Urban Fredriksson
www.canit.se/%7Egriffon/
"Smooth and serrated blades cut in two entirely different fashions."
- The Teeth of the Tyrannosaurs, Scientific American, Sep 1999
- Joined
- Oct 3, 1998
- Messages
- 4,842
>I'd say that the basic geometry of my knives with
>bolsters where the handle joins the blade is about the same as for
>those without.
Is this is a guess, or have you measured with a micrometer? I've always suspected, just based on performance, that the edge geometry on bolsterless knives is thinner and gives better performance than most integral-bolster knives (to see an integral bolster, look at the Henckel's or Wustoff-Trident knives). Cliff sent me a micrometer a couple months ago, and it confirmed what I pretty much knew -- with a bolster, the edge starts out a lot thicker, especially back near the bolster.
Joe
jat@cup.hp.com
>bolsters where the handle joins the blade is about the same as for
>those without.
Is this is a guess, or have you measured with a micrometer? I've always suspected, just based on performance, that the edge geometry on bolsterless knives is thinner and gives better performance than most integral-bolster knives (to see an integral bolster, look at the Henckel's or Wustoff-Trident knives). Cliff sent me a micrometer a couple months ago, and it confirmed what I pretty much knew -- with a bolster, the edge starts out a lot thicker, especially back near the bolster.
Joe
jat@cup.hp.com
Yes, I measured, but of course only on a small sample. The bolsters on my knives certainly don't look like this Wustoff-Trident one: http://store1.yimg.com/I/p4online_1550_12744880
That seems a bit impractical I'll readily agree.
Mine have bolsters more like this: http://www.fallkniven.se/bilder/hattori/L-yu240.jpg
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Urban Fredriksson
www.canit.se/%7Egriffon/
"Smooth and serrated blades cut in two entirely different fashions."
- The Teeth of the Tyrannosaurs, Scientific American, Sep 1999
That seems a bit impractical I'll readily agree.
Mine have bolsters more like this: http://www.fallkniven.se/bilder/hattori/L-yu240.jpg
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Urban Fredriksson
www.canit.se/%7Egriffon/
"Smooth and serrated blades cut in two entirely different fashions."
- The Teeth of the Tyrannosaurs, Scientific American, Sep 1999
- Joined
- Oct 3, 1998
- Messages
- 4,842
Griffon --
Aha! So we were in agreement all along.
The first URL of the W-T knife has the classic "integral bolster". The Wusthoff Trident, Henckels, etc., that have integral bolsters have relatively thick edges near the bolsters. They are easily outperformed by knives like the Hattori knife in your second URL. That knife has a bolster on the handle ONLY, no bolster running down the back of the blade. The edge is very very thing, all the way to the back.
Joe
Aha! So we were in agreement all along.
The first URL of the W-T knife has the classic "integral bolster". The Wusthoff Trident, Henckels, etc., that have integral bolsters have relatively thick edges near the bolsters. They are easily outperformed by knives like the Hattori knife in your second URL. That knife has a bolster on the handle ONLY, no bolster running down the back of the blade. The edge is very very thing, all the way to the back.
Joe