Kitchen knife sharpness

C

ccr

Joined
Nov 8, 2008
Messages
127
hey guys, im thinking of doing little sharpening service to make some extra cash. most of what id be doing is kitchen cutlery. i was wondering what degree of sharpness you all think is good for kitchen blades? so far i have been getting them to where they can push cut a piece of paper. is that about right? also i was thinking of charging like 50 cents per inch. does that seem fair? thanks fellas.
 
most people charge a base of a dollar per inch, on my kitchen knives, i use a dmt aligner on the lowest setting, it should definetly shave arm hair and push cut paper, on one of my knives and can push cut news paper and I am close to whittling hair. But overall push cutting paper is very sharp, most people have never used a knife near that sharpness, so most people are amazed at levels of sharpness us knifenuts would frown at. My goal eventually is to be able to pass the falling hair test, where a piece of hair is dropped on the blade, and it is cut by gravity
 
Hey CCR.

You might find that different customers will want greatly varying degrees of sharpness in their kitchen knives. Us knife nuts like EVERYTHING wicked sharp, but your more 'typical' kitchen knife user might be scared off by something that can literally whittle hair. I'd bet you'd be well-served in being as flexible as possible to your customers' wishes/requirements. Be prepared to make 'em wicked sharp, but allow your customer to determine what they need from your service.

BTW, I'm not really familiar with what typical rates are these days for sharpening, but I think 50 cents per inch sounds reasonable to me. I peeked at a web page of a sharpening service a while back, and I think they were typically charging somewhere around $5 (or less) for typical kitchen knives up to the usual 'large' chef's knife size (maybe 8" or 10" blade).

That's my two cent's worth :p. Good luck! :thumbup:
 
Along with the sharpening business I would also provide a printed 'flyer' to customers with tips as to how to take care of and use kitchen knives. I see ladies (and men) carving on a ceramic plate which is guaranteed to blunt the edge. Also see folks lump all their knives together in a dish washer and let them rattle around as the appliance cycles. They also leave them in the dishwasher to go through the heated drying cycle which, I suspect, doesn't help the temper. Lots of folks have quality knives but don't have a clue how to use and care for them.

Folks will splurge sometimes and buy a really nice and expensive chef's knife, then treat it like the lug wrench in their car trunk. Go figure. Anyway, some polite printed advice about knife care and cutting techniques sure couldn't hurt.....
 
hardheart said:
what kind of hair are you talking about?
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He must have been talkinga bout this kind...
hare_1_md.gif


I reckon gravity would cut one of those. :p

I don't do knife work for a lot of different people, but I have a handful of loyal customers, and I think that getting to know what people want is the most important thing.

That and no alienating people. I know a couple of guys that are cooks, one still hasn't learned how to use a really sharp knife, and slams the blade into the cutting board, so he complains about it "biting" if it's too sharp. The other uses glass and ceramic cutting boards and complains if the edge dents or chips.

I try not to force my views on what they should do, I just compensate. I grind micro bevels and convex edges that are fairly thick for the guy that uses glass, and I just use a pretty thick edge off of a 1K stone for the guy that has the problem with "biting".

It's kind of tricky to establish what they want though, and get good feedback. I never really know to start off thinking, "Well, they probably only need it this sharp," because that puts me in a bad light if they needed it sharper.

So what I do is I just guarantee satisfaction. That's harder for a lot of people that do a lot of work to do, but I've only got a few customers that are even interested. However, that "satisfaction guarantee" carries more demand than just general sharpness does. I mean, when they know that you're not just blowing hot wind and trumped up promises, they are more willing to both listen to you and come back to you and that's when things start getting easy.

In the end, I wonder if maybe I should tell the guy to switch from glass cutting boards, but in discussions I've learned that he believes wood or plastic ones are "unsanitary" and I'm just not going to challenge that. I've also decided not to tell my other friend that the edge is biting beacuse his technique. Those kinds of things are alienating, and while you may think you're doing the customer a service by trying to tell them those kinds of things, I'd be cautious of not stepping on any toes. Assuming that people are ignorant and don't know what they're doing is not a good way to establish a customer base.

I like Old CW4's idea despite that, but I'd be sure you remain flexible. I've told the guy that uses glass, that glass is too hard for a certain sharpness level, and that wood is too soft for a certain sharpness level to the other guy. You can dance around the bush like that, but in the end are you trying to make money by making better edge professionals out of people, or sharpening their knives the way they want to use them? I mean, I suppose I could tell the guy using that knife to cut pipe to get a $15 pipe cutter from WalMart, but I know that he wants to use his knife because the people at his job steal people's pipe cutters and don't think a knife could do the job--it's interesting why people want what they want, but it's even better that they'll pay for it.
 
Never be worried about telling someone the proper way, its your job to let them know the proper ways. There is no excuse for using a glass or ceramic cutting board, the knife will be dull and deformed before they are done cutting regardless of bevel type. If they will not change I would suggest cutco serrated blades, they were designed with those in mind.

The chef will out cook you but is coming to you because he can't sharpen nearly as well as he can cook.

Showing someone proper technique is also very important, through long periods of using a poorly maintained tool bad habits are created. If not corrected injury or continued damage to the tool is likely.

The level of sharp will be more about the proper reforming of the damaged blade you receive. I say damaged because by the time most send a blade out for service the edge is nearly as thick as the blade itself. Simply putting a edge back on the knife makes worlds of improvement.

What will you be using to sharpen?
 
Kenny, I understand exactly what your saying . A lot of brash know-it-all goes on and people are fed up with it and will avoid it when they can . Just keep doing them a service and befriend them but have one carefully worded sentence ready . Then as the correct moment arises deliver it tactfully . It will be recieved better and you'll get more milage out of it than other methods . DM
 
knifenut1013 said:
Never be worried about telling someone the proper way, its your job to let them know the proper ways. There is no excuse for using a glass or ceramic cutting board, the knife will be dull and deformed before they are done cutting regardless of bevel type. If they will not change I would suggest cutco serrated blades, they were designed with those in mind.

The chef will out cook you but is coming to you because he can't sharpen nearly as well as he can cook.

Showing someone proper technique is also very important, through long periods of using a poorly maintained tool bad habits are created. If not corrected injury or continued damage to the tool is likely.

The level of sharp will be more about the proper reforming of the damaged blade you receive. I say damaged because by the time most send a blade out for service the edge is nearly as thick as the blade itself. Simply putting a edge back on the knife makes worlds of improvement.

What will you be using to sharpen?
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thanks, i will be using india and arkansas stone followed by a strop. though im thinking of dmt diamond stones since you speak so highly of them. if im really used to whetstones do you think ill like dmt stones? i just dont want to put down a big investment for something i wont like. what do you think?
 
I think you'll run into a lot of knives that need reprofiling, from the "professionals" what I see mostly is knife abuse by unskilled workers in the kitchens, there may or may not be a person there who knowns what is right as far as knife use, but prepare to see knives used to cut dough on steel and ceramic surfaces and abused on steels.

It really is in their best business interest to not have to call on you every month or few weeks to sharpen up the blades, remove chips/dings. That being said, I think it would be the right thing to explain to the chef/lead cook that knife abuse makes kitchen work slower and more dangerous. (Like going from cutting with a dull knife and picking up one that's still razor sharp)
 
ccr said:
thanks, i will be using india and arkansas stone followed by a strop. though im thinking of dmt diamond stones since you speak so highly of them. if im really used to whetstones do you think ill like dmt stones? i just dont want to put down a big investment for something i wont like. what do you think?
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When I first started sharpening I used a medium and fine arkansas for everything, I also had a coarse/fine alu oxide stone but did not understand at the time what such a coarse stone was needed for. It ended up that I only had success with the medium ark stone and everything else always made my knife duller. So for a while I used just the medium stone and could get all my knives sharp until the day my friend brought over his BM in 154cm. When I tried to sharpen his blade it did not feel like any steel was being removed and at one point it even gouged my stone, so this is where a quest for the better stone started.

I shopped around for a bit and decided a spyderco medium and fine ceramic was what I needed, I used those for about 10 years and was very happy with the increase in sharpness and ability to sharpen the harder steels. At the end of that time I started to learn a lot about sharpening and realized I needed a coarser stone for major work so the shop was on for that. I started by looking for a coarse ceramic stone because I wanted to keep the sharpening media the same, this searched proved harder than I thought so I started looking into other abrasives/stones. I spent a lot of time doing research for my next stone set because I really didn't want to have to do it again, and against everyones suggestions I went diamond.

Its kind of like trying to find "the knife", you may find one that covers most needs but you must still give and take a little. At this time I would not and will not trade or give up my diamond stones for any other set of stones and though they are the "best" IMO they still don't cover everything. To cover the rest I use sandpaper and natural water stones, this give me the most effective options to grind, sharpen, and polish a edge that I have been able to find.

The steels you sharpen, types of edges, and styles of blades will be your guide to the stones you should be using. To say your doing kitchen blades still leaves you open to a wide spectrum of edge styles and steel types, I think your best bet at this time would be to find out exactly the styles of blades you will be sharpening and what you need to do them correctly.
 
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