kitchen knives edge and edge-holding

Joined
Aug 11, 1999
Messages
1,111
Of the various production lines, whose *steel* knives offer the finest edge and best edge-holding? No, Busse doesn’t count. Yes, I’m aware of Kyocera, but I’m looking for an 8” blade and Kyocera’s largest is 6”.

(Hey, why doesn’t someone do a kitchen knife test? Cutting ability, edge retention, corrosion resistance ... no prying, tree chopping, or bear defense!)

Glen
 
Storyville,
You should take a serious look at Spyderco's kitchen knife line. They brought back the old line they had and Mr. Mattis thinks rather highly of them if I remember correctly. Good plain edge models in all the popular patterns. I'm getting one on my next trip to Ruff's. 7" Chef's model I elieve it is.
They use MBS-26 steel at Rc57-59. This is harder than the much ballyhooed thick spined and forged German kitchen cutlery. Damned if I can remember a single brand name of any of them right now. Ravages of old age I guess.
If I get one this week, I post a mini review in the review forum.
Take care.

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The individualist without strategy who takes opponents lightly will inevitably become the captive of others.


 
Give T H Rinaldi a call. I love my 5.5 inch BG-42 TTKK. I plan on getting a larger one in Talonite in a few months in the 8 inch range.

Sid
 
Actually, the new offering from Ginsu, the Ginsu II (r), with modified IFNI-ite (r) steel blades, is much to be preferred.
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If these are not available in your area, my Henckels' four star knives have given me good service for over 20 years.

Walt
 
I don't know anything that beats MBS-26 steel from Spyderco for kitchen knives. It takes an edge like a straight razor and really holds it. Their selection is not real broad, but they recently did a short run of a wider variety of styles than they've been carrying for a while. The Model K02 is a chef's knife a bit longer than you wanted, the K03 is an 8" carving knife, and the Santoku is a 6.75" Japanese chef's knife. If the style of the knives suit you I would grab them from Chai Cutlery ASAP. When this batch is gone you may never get these models again. Another exceptional steel comes from AG Russell and has tungsten. If you find kitchen knives that are made from AUS-8 like the japanese MAC knives they serve very well as a cutlery steel--very sharp harder than normal cutlery and easy to maintain. (AUS-8 is usually 57-58 rockwell verses 54-56 rockwell typical of most cutlery).

The link to Chai Cutlery's Spyderco kitchen knives is:

http://www.chaicutlery.com/spyderco.html#Kitchen

 
I have taken my set of Henckel Professional Series knives on a quick trip into Sharpmaker 204 land, you wouldn't believe the edge on them now. Talk about shaving sharp
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They will slice a tomato so thin, you can see through it. Also after a few uses, just a couple of swipes on a steel and they are right back to shave again. They use some kind of high Carbon Stainless, I wish I knew what it was.

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C.O.'s-"It takes balls to work behind the walls "
 
We've had some 4 Star Henckels (speling ?) for about 13 years now which have served us well. I've been using a small Smith crock stick on them for a few years now, which works well, is handy and quick, although a larger set would probably work better. I seem to recall that they use a precipitation hardening stainless, something like 18-8 for their knives, which takes a decent enough edge with about average holding. I've been impressed with the 9 deg to 10 deg per side edges on my Mora knives but I don't know if I'd want that type of edge on my kitchen knives, as unlike most of my other knives the Mora edge is 'grabby' and completely unforgiving, like using razor blades for some jobs. Even new Exacto blades and my other shaving sharp knives don't seem to have that 'grabby' quality, which I guess is due to the high polish and small angle of the hard (Rc60) carbon steel edge, but some of my Old Timer blades seem to be getting there as I continue to touch them up on leather.
 
I have a special affection for kitchen knives.
I don't think they should have the same hardness as a field knife.
They should have a softer steel which will tolerate side loads and resist chipping and breaking, and then come back with a few strokes of the steel.
If we restrict the use of kitchen to food things, like meat, soft knives will serve us better than hard because we can repair and maintain the edge without removing metal.
In a slaughter house or meat cutting plant the meat cutters steel their knives everytime they pick them up or set them down.
You don't let them get dull.
However, in the modern kitchen we don't have the tradition or skill of constant steeling, and so we think we want a hard steel which will hold its edge longer; and if we think we want that the knife manufacturers will give it to us.
I find the ergonomics of a knife much more important than the steel, mostly because we have such good and inexpensive knife steels for kitchen cutlery use.
I steel my knives regularly and only have to resort to a stone when I have let them go too far; maybe once a year or even longer if they have a good starting edge and I don't let it go.
So I say, handle a lot of knives and hold them as you would cutting something on a counter top.
How they feel should determine which you choose.
And the expensive ones feel good, just not always enough to make it worth the money.
I like the wood handled Forschners.
They cut, they hold up, and they cost one fourth what the prestige knives cost.
If I had more money I would buy more expensive knives for the aesthetics and feel, not for how well they cut.

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Luke 22:36, John 18:6-11, Freedom

 
I have used mostly Wusthof and henckels for years and do prefer the Wusthof since they seem a little harder. At present I have purchase some antique (non stainless) and modern (stainless) Sabatiers. These knives are harder than the German knives and hold an edge significantly longer. They feel just right in your hands as well.
 
Thanks for the great feedback, all -- will take it all back to the mental lab, go out and handle a few, end up w/a decent knife!

Glen
 
Greetings!

This is a topic of great interest to me. I own a moderately-sized restaurant and have been working in foodservice for twenty years. Over the years I've used and abused just about all the major brands of kitchen cutlery.

This past July I was honored to receive the first ever Talonite bladed Chef's knife from knife maker and artist extraordinaire Rob Simonich. This is a large (just over 10") blade with a tradional German-style geometry.

Rob created a knife with superb balance and ergonomics, which I agree with Ken Cox, are of extreme importance to those of us who wield knives for many hours a day for a living. The attention to detail and finish of this knife are exquisite.

But the kicker about this knife is the Talonite blade. I'd read all the hype about this mysterious metal and really wanted to see if it could hold up to daily use in a busy kitchen.

When the knife arrived, I can honestly say that Rob had put the meanest, nastiest, hair-popping edge on any blade that I've ever handled of any type. I was very impressed but dubious to see how long such a thin edge could hold up. The blade actually surprised me by keeping that wire-type edge for a few days and then settled into a more normal type of sharpness. I used the knife morning, noon, and night for two weeks maintaining the edge by merely giving it a gentle stroke on my ceramic steel every now and then.

After using the knife for two weeks I boxed the knife back up and shipped it to another Chef\Restauranteur and forum member, Michael Gettier,for his evaluation. Michael used the knife for two weeks at his restaurant and commented on how easily the blade responded to gentle steeling.

During the time that Michael was using the Talonite prototype, I had resumed using the knife that I had been using preiously, a MesserMeister St.Tropez. I had sharpened this knife on my Edge-Pro one week prior to having the Simonich knife returned to me.
When the Simonich knife came back, I was astounded to find that it was much sharper after four weeks use than the knife I had just sharpened!

To illustrate how much better this Talonite blade is holding a good edge, consider this:

My weekly routine in the kitchen involves lightly sharpening my knives on the Edge-Pro every Saturday morning.

I've had the Simonich for over three MONTHS and I've only used my stone ONCE!!! This knife blows any other blade I've ever used away!

Imagine how much longer this blade will last when you don't have to sharpen it 1/10th as much! (Well, I guess that would be 10 times longer lasting!)

I'll be the first one to admit that this has been by no means a scientific study, but I know how knives feel when they are sharp and I know how food responds to a sharp blade. In my experience, this metal is astounding in its edge-holding ability. I am truly a Talonite disciple.

The only drawback that I can see so far in the properties of Talonite as a kitchen blade material is the price.

But if you consider how much longer the blade will last, suddenly it doesn't seem so outrageous.

Stirring the pot,

Nick Blinoff
 
For my uses, the Henkels and Tridents are made of a steel that is a bit hard. When using them everyday the edges just don't respond the way one would want in terms of sharpening and steeling. For production knives, without too much use, they're not bad...just not my cup o tea.

However, what Nick says about the Simonich Talonite knife is true.

Not being a 'steel-of-the-month' guy (I use O-1 knives), I was apprehensive of Talonite. When Nick, upon sending the knife to me for testing (thanks Nick, Robs finishing up mine; I'll send it to you!), said he had not yet sharpened the knife my first thought was "gonna have to put an edge on this bad boy".

Hahahahahaha!

The knife arrived at my restaurant, even by our standards, incredibly sharp. All the staff was impressed! I used it, including for the dreaded Lobster Night (gotta take the rubber bands off the claws before cutting them in half - to give em a fighting chance...), for two weeks; never sharpened it once! The day it was send back to Nick it was brutally sharp. (A side note: to test for sharpness throw a cherry tomato in the air, slice it dead in half. If it hits the ground *bone dry* the knife is sharp
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).

What suprised me about this blade was how well it responded to steeling...when the laser-like cutting ability waned ever so slightly, two or three quick swipes on a smooth steel brought it right back. Amazing.

Used many knives in 18 years, this is without a doubt the most impressive blade I've had my hands on. Had one senior cook say it was too sharp for him!

The "Blinoff" model was great, but I'm waiting for my Rob Simonich "Gettier" Talonite model with great anticipation!

-Michael

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Chefget's Knife Page


[This message has been edited by Chefget (edited 03 November 1999).]
 
I visited Rob's site some time ago, and I seem to remember him describing talonite as not as hard as conventional steels, but that hardness in this application didn't matter.
I write this from work and I don't have the URL.
Maybe I'll check it out in the morning from home and report back.

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Luke 22:36, John 18:6-11, Freedom

 
Hello!
J.A.Henckels of Solingen, Zwilling Brand, has a relatively new top line of knives with a so called MagnaDur-coated edge. They claim that the edge won't get dull for a minimum of 20 (tewnty!) years of normal kitchen use. Without resharpening! Personally i cannot believe this because i've seen even ceramic knives getting dull after some years of use. But for the moment it is difficult to say something against it because they are not on the market for twenty but for two years. I have asked a distributor and he said he hasn't got any problems with his clients yet.

Achim
 
My wife uses the MagnaDur (sp?)...every month or so when the knife stops cutting so good, she takes it back.

The retailer is *really* tiring of seeing her, but the knife is guaranteed to stay sharp for life!

-Michael

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Chefget's Knife Page
 
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