Kitchen knives frustration

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davidKa-78

Joined
Jul 17, 2024
Messages
7
Hi to all,
A bit of a noob question -
As a home cook I’ve got a few knives that was abused by kids, guests… probably wife :)) My daily/weekly routine was a touch up with idahone honing rod when I felt that a knife can’t cut anymore - tomatoes, bell paper eyc. but now it’s just a dull peace of metal…
Just received Work Sharp Precision Adjust standard kit and my tactile feelings are telling me that I’ll ruin my knifes with that 320 or even 600grit diamond stones. They just feel too aggressive.
Should I proceed with what I have or should I think of another, more gentle sharpening technique like spiderco sharpmaker?
Knives I need to revive are Zwillings (twin pollux) a few japanese narrow angled “vanadium something steel” and a few beloved vg10 (also japanese) multilayered knifes. I’ve tried to find what’s the minimal angle on my WSPA with my yaxell santoku and regardless of the device’s markings that’s around 11-12 degrees but again - diamond feels like overkill for that blade.

Any suggestions? Thanks in advance!
 
It's hard to advise on this when we're not physically there to see how you use the Work Sharp. I wouldn't hesitate to try the 600 or even coarser, but that's me. Why don't you go to a local Goodwill and get a $1 knife, and practice on that first. Then you'll have the confidence you need for your Zwillings.
 
Biggest thing to keep in mind is just don't let the tip of the knife go past the centerline of the belt. That's how folks round their tips off.
 
I'd start with the finest stones and see how it goes. Thin-edged kitchen knives don't need much. The 600-grit should be fine. Just use light pressure.
 
Those electro bonded diamond plates are extremely coarse until they get "broken in". They basically have tons of extra diamond, super high areas of diamond etc that get worn off and you are left with a much more consistent stone.
 
I used/use the precision adjust. The basic unit is a bit sketchy to large blades though. I made a support to go under the arm helps a lot with stability. Just a piece of wood the right size that fits under the clamp arm. The metal bar could be longer and the clamp is not great. But if you go slow and careful it does the job. I used the fine grit followed by stropping and it did well enough. I try to just strop to about resharpening as long as possible.
 
davidKa-78 said:
Just received Work Sharp Precision Adjust standard kit and my tactile feelings are telling me that I’ll ruin my knifes with that 320 or even 600grit diamond stones. They just feel too aggressive.
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If my memory still serves me there was a discussion about those sharpeners on this forum - where the parts come from and similar. So I suspect those diamond stones/plates are somewhere on the same manufacturing level as my cheap diamond plates. So yes; it would probably not be a good idea to use those plates as they are on your knives. You first need to break them in .... with an cheap knife or a piece of straight metal.
When I got my plates I first had to chamfer the edges to remove diamond buildups and then I broke them in with a piece of HSS steel to kill some spikes and dislodge excessive diamonds. Now those plates work as they should.


davidKa-78 said:
Should I proceed with what I have or should I think of another, more gentle sharpening technique like spiderco sharpmaker?
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You can somehow refresh the edge with honing rods, steels and strops to some extent but you can't do this forever. Knives need to be sharpened. That's how you remove fatigued metal and reestablish a fresh cutting edge.

If I understood your post correctly you have never sharpened your knives on stones or diamond plates. I would take Mr. Sodak advice. Get a cheap knife to play with.
 
Thanks all for the advices.
Found a beaten up knife and will grind these diamonds to smoothen them up a bit.
Yes, ceramic honing rod that what I use for all my knives but they’ve “exceeded the limit”, except the Yaxell santoku, still plenty sharp.

Btw purchased 4’ stone holder for WSPA from hapstone and may be it’s my OCD but the lateral play/wobble on the sharpeners rod feels pretty discouraging…
 
Fresh diamond plates will indeed cut a bit more aggressively because they are new and are saturated with diamond particles that may break free after the first sharpening, and breaking them in on a knife or two that isn't a collectable or heirloom is a good idea.

However, I don't agree that 300 or 600 grits are too coarse in general for kitchen knives. Guided and sharpeners work differently than freehand sharpening in that the guided systems do not follow the existing bevel that the knife has; they cut their own new bevel.

So, the first time you put a knife on a guided system, it will profile the knife bevel to the angle that you set, and there will be more material removed than you may be expecting. Coarse diamond plates are great for profiling and re-profiling a knife. They make the job go so much faster, and then you can refine the bevel to a near mirror polish with higher grits.

If you are new to guided angle sharpening, always set your angle with a digital angle finder, or even an app on your phone. The angle adjustment stickers on the Worksharps don't mean anything because the true sharpening angle is affected by how far the knife sticks out of the clamp, and the printed sticker can't know that.
 
davidKa-78 said:
Btw purchased 4’ stone holder for WSPA from hapstone and may be it’s my OCD but the lateral play/wobble on the sharpeners rod feels pretty discouraging…
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I would say there has to be some clearance between the rod and the hole in stone holder .... in other words; the hole needs to be a little larger so the stone holder can move on the rod.
Will this cause problems? Depends on how much play we are talking about but probably not. Don't overthink; just try to sharpen your beater knife and see. Besides; how accurate can we hold the angle when free hand sharpening?
 
Thanks, waiting for angle cube from amazon, probably will get it next week.
Regarding clearance-play with hapstone holder - probably it’s my OCD, i used to repair fishing reels so I’m pretty sensitive to these kind of things. So yes, overthinking :)) but may be I’ll put some dry ptfe grease to minimize metal-on-metal wear.
 
davidKa-78 said:
Thanks, waiting for angle cube from amazon, probably will get it next week.
Regarding clearance-play with hapstone holder - probably it’s my OCD, i used to repair fishing reels so I’m pretty sensitive to these kind of things. So yes, overthinking :)) but may be I’ll put some dry ptfe grease to minimize metal-on-metal wear.
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For a start you could use those angle markings on the sharpener. I personally would not wait, I would want to try a new sharpener right away.

You could measure approximately the clearance between the rod and a hole in stone holder. Print paper is about 0.1 milimeter thick. I would just measure diameter of the hole and the rod with my digital caliper but if you don't have a caliper you can also cut a few milimeters wide and an inch or two long strips of print paper and try to insert first one strip between the hole and the rod, then two.... etc. Not a lab measurment but can give you a rough hint about the clearance.
 
I’ve tried it already, with a very problematic 15cm flexible fillet blade. Not the easiest knife to sharpen with that narrow clamp. 320 grit felt as too aggressive for soft steel, so I moved to 600. After all feels sharper but not razor sharp.
 
Agree. I have similar clamps on one of my sharpening systems and they are not the best choice to sharpen long and flexible kitchen knives.

I usually sharpen my kitchen knives with #240 or #320 diamond file and then deburr the edge with a leather strop with 3 or 6 diamond compound.
I sharpen one side till I can feel a burr with my fingers. Then I flip the knife and do the other side till I can feel a burr.
Then I flip again and do a few light edge leading passes across the burr till I can feel it no more.
Then I do very light alternating edge leading passes - one very light edge leading pass, flip and one very light edge leading pass, flip..... etc. I do this 10 or 20 times.
At this stage the knife should cut news print. I test the edge with a piece of paper while the knife is in clamps.
Then I increase the angle for 1 or 1.5 degree and I strop. My strops are not the same thickness as stones so I need to do it with angle cube.
After stropping I drag a piece of wood across the edge a few times and check again with paper. If it cuts paper cleanly I'm ok, if not I strop some more.
Well, that's about it.
 
Thanks for suggestions. Burring and deburring - thats something that I surely have to learn. That fillet knife is quite soft metal but probably it will give me an opportunity to learn how to sharpen, as the Vg10 knives I have are much more brittle on the edge.
 
davidKa-78 said:
Burring and deburring
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Yes indeed; I would say this is most common method to sharpen a knife.

Hehe; first we do our best to establish a burr on one sides of the edge and then we repeat the same thing on the other side of the edge. Then we struggle to remove this burr. 🤔
What a contradiction.

I guess the main question is how to remove this burr.
Sometimes I have a feeling there is as many burr removal methods as members of this forum.
I suppose the other question would be how to check if our method really removes the burr.
 
I don’t remember where and when exactly… but I saw once an article about “3 angle stage” sharpening method, that’s when you raising an angle with each grit progression, e.g. coarse at 13, medium at 14, finishing at 15.
 
davidKa-78 said:
I don’t remember where and when exactly… but I saw once an article about “3 angle stage” sharpening method, that’s when you raising an angle with each grit progression, e.g. coarse at 13, medium at 14, finishing at 15.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't know about that. I never tried this approach or at least I can't remember I did.

OK then; I would say sharpening basics are more or less covered. Now practice should follow.
 
Don't forget to give us a feedback about your sharpening adventure.
By the way, as soon as you knife starts cutting hanging toilet paper you are good to go.
 
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