Recommendation? Kitchen knives in super steels?

T

triz neena

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Aug 4, 2007
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I bought a couple of Japanese knives in blue 2 around ten years ago. They hold an edge okay but need quite some attention to avoid rust build up and food stains. They need stropping often since the edge corrodes a bit if you dont dry them right away, basically cut food, rinse, wash and dry. The missus does not care as much about this as I do so you can imagine the knives are not in great working condition!

Now I would like a chefs and paring knife that I can enjoy for life with less maintenance.

-Is anyone making kitchen knifes in the latest and greatest super steels like Rex or magnacut or is this not a thing?
-Is there a reason for not making kitchen knives in high end steels and if so what is considered a great steel for a kitchen knife?
-any recommendations? Like what are some great custom or production knifemakers?
 
I have been enjoying a cheap set of kitchen knives by KAI for a while now, pure komani is the line, they have been great, they retain edge, they sharpen easily
 
First of all. What kind of cutting board are you & the wifey using??? You want wood. Oak, Ash, Maple, Walnut. No plastic & bamboo is mostly plastic with 2% sand. .The reason I’ve asked is any Stainless Steel 440C or better is a “Super Steel” as long as it’s Heat Treated properly…For a good start & happy purchase look at Shun, & one used by many Professional chefs, Global..
 
bradford is making their chefs knife in magnacut.
daniel at malanika will make a magnacut chefs knife. i have one in N690.houston edge works uses s45n i think in their stock knife. lots of stuff out there!
 
soupcon said:
bradford is making their chefs knife in magnacut.
daniel at malanika will make a magnacut chefs knife. i have one in N690.houston edge works uses s45n i think in their stock knife. lots of stuff out there!
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Amazing, thank you, never heard of those brands but will look them all up.
 
RHINOKNIVES said:
First of all. What kind of cutting board are you & the wifey using??? You want wood. Oak, Ash, Maple, Walnut. No plastic & bamboo is mostly plastic with 2% sand. .The reason I’ve asked is any Stainless Steel 440C or better is a “Super Steel” as long as it’s Heat Treated properly…For a good start & happy purchase look at Shun, & one used by many Professional chefs, Global..
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Thank you, will have a look at the suggestions. I use oak cutting boards only and also understand a normal stainless steel would be fine, an Ikea knife would be fine, but that can be said about any production folder or fixed blade right? I am after the sebenza of kitchen knives: Too expensive for logic, but perfection for the enthusiast.
 
Magnacut works really well in the kitchen as does CPM-154 for the higher edge retention steels, but they can be pricey! AEB-L or Nitro V at 62 HRC also work very well and touch up quickly and easily and is more economical.

If you like the Japanese knives and other qualities, look for G3/Ginsan steel (reminds me of AEB-L/Nitro V) or R2/SG2 (better edge holding, a bit harder to sharpen) for stainless steels in Japanese brands. Some Vg-10 is pretty nicely done, too, but some companies are chippy in VG-10.

Many people tend to want something that will be easier to sharpen/touch up more frequently for kitchen use and aren't always concerned about extreme edge holding. A buddy picked up a S90V gyuto and he says it's a PITA to sharpen, but Magnacut is much better to sharpen.
 
Blankblades, Troopah Knives, MSicard, Deerrock, Bidinger among others. These are custom makers, but a supersteel knife can be bought off the shelf. HAP 40 (Rex 45) is somewhat common. Meglio does Magnacut (although I recall them being a little soft for my taste). Really depends on how much you want to spend and how long you want to wait.

A few things: supersteel is best with the correct abrasives, so that should factor in. One reason AEB-L is popular is because of how easily it can be sharpened on regular stones given its toughness. Not all supersteels are best for the kitchen. You would want to pick a steel that matches your use case. If you aren't sure, it may make sense to buy something a little less expensive to try before you commit to a custom build.

All of these makers are wonderful, but you may want to start with MSicard, who has some pieces in stock.
 
triz neena said:
I bought a couple of Japanese knives in blue 2 around ten years ago. They hold an edge okay but need quite some attention to avoid rust build up and food stains. They need stropping often since the edge corrodes a bit if you dont dry them right away, basically cut food, rinse, wash and dry. The missus does not care as much about this as I do so you can imagine the knives are not in great working condition!

Now I would like a chefs and paring knife that I can enjoy for life with less maintenance.

-Is anyone making kitchen knifes in the latest and greatest super steels like Rex or magnacut or is this not a thing?
-Is there a reason for not making kitchen knives in high end steels and if so what is considered a great steel for a kitchen knife?
-any recommendations? Like what are some great custom or production knifemakers?
Click to expand...
Kanjo Tsukahara makes 4 sizes of kitchen knives with the Hamaguri-Ba (Clam Shell) edge with ZDP-189 steel. The edge retention is great, and sharpening is easy because there are no Vanadium Carbides in the formula. The HRC is is about 67 which is softer than Al2O3 and SiC abrasives.IMG_2763.png
 
You could check the knifemaker's and the manfacturer's forums here on BF & see whose style you like, then reach out to them to get your blade(s) made. I've dealt with David Mary David Mary & Robert Erickson Robert Erickson
for custom knives in super steels with excellent communication & results.

All of the knives in the picture are AEB-L except the Boomerang in Magnacut. Please excuse the odd coloration from yellow'ish lighting.
1000067111.jpg
 
Lots of great steels available for kitchen knives.... Don't just limit yourself to super steels.

I've had success with pretty awesome steels such as CPM Cruwear, but also lowly 8670 run Very Hard.
 
If you like N690 gollik gollik works in that steel. And timos- timos- posted a Magnacut blade at:
timos-

Thread 'REPOST - MAGNACUT AND AMBOYNA'

Hello,

This is a medium flex trailing point blade - awesome for butchering/portioning. Its great on vegetables too and has plenty of flat edge near the heel for general purpose boardwork.

The edge profile is the same as a rapala filet knife but with added height to aid in kitchen duties. It is not as thin as a traditional filet knife.



The steel is magnacut at about rc62...air quenched with a cold treatment.
Blade is 8-1/4" length by 1.8" at the heel - from heel to birds beak of the handle is 5" - OAL of 13-7/8"
Thickest part of blade is .100"
Then tempered multiple times for the...
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How about a custom made Sabol Brothers gyuto in Elmax or K390 ?

K

Photos Thread 'Sabol Brothers gyuto's'

Currently waiting for 2 custom 210 mm gyuto's from the Sabol Brothers in Slovakia, below are some early pics they sent me.
One will have a deep cryo Elmax blade @ +/- 62 HRC, +/- 25 degrees inclusive edge, +/- 0.2 mm behind the edge.
The other will have a deep cryo K390 blade @ +/- 64 HRC, +/- 25 degrees inclusive edge, +/- 0.2 mm behind the edge
The handles on both will be octagonal shaped black linen Micarta with a color accent.

Currently waiting for 2 custom 210 mm gyuto's from the Sabol Brothers in Slovakia, below are some early pics they sent me.
One will have a deep cryo Elmax blade...
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Thinking more of this, cause I do.....

As Others pointed out thin, Hard, AEB-L or her Sisters is a great steel in the kitchen.
It won't rust much

You wanting "super steels" isn't all that necessary. And I love super steels.

In the kitchen, your chef knife doesn't usually wear out cutting abrasive materials.

They lose there edge folding, chipping, denting, etc. Not wearing away.
Yes, corrosion can affect things, but Idk realistically?

My wife beats and craps on the 8670 knife I made her. She leaves it in the sink all the time, rusting away. She acts like she Hates that thing. Really Bad use.

And you know what, I look at its edge every few weeks or so.... And it's still sticky sharp.

The knife is ground very thin at its edge. And it's HARD. It's 64HRC.
It's not dulling, and 8670 is very tough.
15n20 would also make a great, rusting, kitchen knife.

You don't need the hard carbide of super steel.
You just need hard, thin, and tough steels......and Then stainless, If ya want
 
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Crag the Brewer said:
Thinking more of this, cause I do.....

As Others pointed out thin, Hard, AEB-L or her Sisters is a great steel in the kitchen.
It won't rust much

You wanting "super steels" isn't all that necessary. And I love super steels.

In the kitchen, your chef knife doesn't usually wear out cutting abrasive materials.

They lose there edge folding, chipping, denting, etc. Not wearing away.
Yes, corrosion can affect things, but Idk realistically?

My wife beats and craps on the 8670 knife I made her. She leaves it in the sink all the time, rusting away. She acts like she Hates that thing. Really Bad use.

And you know what, I look at its edge every few weeks or so.... And it's still sticky sharp.

The knife is ground very thin at its edge. And it's HARD. It's 64HRC.
It's not dulling, and 8670 is very tough.
15n20 would also make a great, rusting, kitchen knife.

You don't need the hard carbide of super steel.
You just need hard, thin, and tough steels......and Then stainless, If ya want
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And yet if you made the same knife with exactly the same geometry and hardness in aeb-l it would stay sharper longer and if you did the same in MagnaCut the edge would last even longer. So even though it seems to make sense that kitchen knives don’t dull from corrosion or abrasion, they do. You don’t need super steels, whatever those are, in kitchen knives as geometry and other factors like ergonomics and balance are significantly more important, still you can get significantly better edge holding in kitchen knives with higher alloy steels.
 
ace said:
And yet if you made the same knife with exactly the same geometry and hardness in aeb-l it would stay sharper longer and if you did the same in MagnaCut the edge would last even longer. So even though it seems to make sense that kitchen knives don’t dull from corrosion or abrasion, they do. You don’t need super steels, whatever those are, in kitchen knives as geometry and other factors like ergonomics and balance are significantly more important, still you can get significantly better edge holding in kitchen knives with higher alloy steels.
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Totally Not true.
I'm my kitchen scenario, you are trimming fat off beef bones, splitting Joints for making soup. and magna cut chips it's edge terribly.

With the exact same hardness, and same geometry, AEB-L is Considerably stronger.
Considerably.


AEB-L/Nitro V is tougher than 3V at same hardness.

Id concede that magna cut could make a better Hunter or fillet knife in certain circumstances, but....id Not choose it for in the kitchen just blindly. Super steels have their place.
 
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Crag the Brewer said:
Totally Not true.
I'm my kitchen scenario, you are trimming fat off beef bones, splitting Joints for making soup. and magna cut chips it's edge terribly.

With the exact same hardness, and same geometry, AEB-L is Considerably stronger.
Considerably.


AEB-L/Nitro V is tougher than 3V at same hardness.

Id concede that magna cut could make a better Hunter or fillet knife in certain circumstances, but....id Not choose it for in the kitchen just blindly. Super steels have their place.
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If magna cut is chipping terribly it is probably to hard. With that said I prefer 14C28N and AEB-L in the kitchen. Edge wear has never been a concern of mine with kitchen knives but edge stability is cherished.
 
I would love to try AEB-L in a thin very hard kitchen knife given it's excellent edge stability and ability to take a thin edge/grind. Having said that, I would also look at Hitachi White and Super Blue steels. I have had very good results with both of them in my knives from Murray Carter. One of these days, I'm going to try his kitchen knives.
 
Crag the Brewer said:
Totally Not true.
I'm my kitchen scenario, you are trimming fat off beef bones, splitting Joints for making soup. and magna cut chips it's edge terribly.

With the exact same hardness, and same geometry, AEB-L is Considerably stronger.
Considerably.


AEB-L/Nitro V is tougher than 3V at same hardness.

Id concede that magna cut could make a better Hunter or fillet knife in certain circumstances, but....id Not choose it for in the kitchen just blindly. Super steels have their place.
Click to expand...
You are describing a very specific scenario where toughness is more important than other attributes and in that scenario you are right. For general purpose, high performing chef knife, which is what OP was asking about, and that cuts mostly veggies for 99% of people, toughness is less important. This can be seen in the fact that most high performance chef knives are made out of relatively low toughness steels. It would be similar to needing a knife to cut lemons all day long in which case low toughness stainless would outperform high toughness low alloy steels. Bottom line, wear resistance makes a difference in kitchen knives as do other steel attributes.
 
Years ago, Cold Steel decided to discontinue their Long Hunter (7" blade) and Western Hunter (6" blade) sheath knives. These knives are high quality stainless steel, made in Taiwan, with heavy duty plastic handles and a cheap nylon belt sheath. Recognizing their potential as kitchen knives, I ended up purchasing four Western Hunters and four Long Hunters. Because of the quantity, I ended up getting them for something like $12 each, plus shipping. My wife and I have been using them daily for over ten years now. They are razor-sharp and dishwasher safe. Those are the only kitchen knives that we own.
 
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