Kitchen knives: Sharpness, Edge Geometry/Angle, Hardness, etc.

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dejhantulip

Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
13
Hello everyone!

First of all, allow me to take my stand up, take my hat off, and give you all a big applause. You guys ROCK!

Ever since I found this community (b/c this goes WAY beyond a forum site) I was fascinated!

Congrats :)

This is my first question, and I hope to make it as clear as I am thinking it since English is not my native language (I am from South America).

I am looking for kitchen knives, for basically two things: To collect them (I really like them) and to cook with them.

Therefore I got a couple of questions. Could you please give me a list of the "best" kitchen knives (according to your opinion) and give me as well some of the SPECS, such as, how sharp they are (really subjective I think), their edge angle, edge geometry, hardness (Rockwell Hardness) and some other things.

In addition, I am planning to take some of these knives back home, and I am not really sure if there will be an "expert" to sharpen them, so maybe I was thinking in purchasing some sharpening equipment that would work on a variety of edge angles? For example, sharpening a Shun (16 degrees) would be different than sharpening a Henckels (20-22 degrees) or a MAC (15 degrees), right? Any comments on this?

If you need any clarifications please let me know :)

Thank you SO much for everything!

It's great to form part of this community, I will contribute as soon as I can with pictures, reviews, etc!



--ORLANDO
 
You might want to browse Kitchen knife forum @ knifeforums.com
As for "best": I quite like Hiromoto AS line, they could have better fit&finish, mind you, but I like the AS steel laminated with stainless (and the price is not that bad).

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But if money is no subject to you, get Hattori KD :D
 
Some of the technical questions you can find on the manufacturer's sites. As to edge angles, well... make them what you want. :)

I've not used every kitchen knife out there, but let me sum up what you'll likely hear...

European style: Wusthof or Messermeister is better than Henckels.
Japanese style: Customs are better than Shuns or Globals, but Shuns and Globals are excellent.

My personal choice was to go for Shun Classics. Some people advocate jumping up to one of their higher level lines, but I just can't justify the expense, especially with a family that's not as knife-conscious as I am. (i.e. if I came home and my daughter was cutting something on a glass plate with a $300 knife, I might kill her)

For maintaining the edge, I have a Sharpmaker that seems to work fine. Alternately, for a very small layout of money you could set up a mousepad/leather and sandpaper/polishing compound system and convex them. For a bit more money you could get an Edge Pro Apex and be able to modify edge angles to your heart's content. I have, and use, all three. I used the EP to knock my Shun's back a few degrees so I could use the Sharpmaker at the 30 degree (15 per side) setting, and now I just use the SM to maintain them. Piece of cake. :)
 
Personally, I think the the Shun are the best bang for the buck. VG-10 steel and a very thin edge geometry. They are not knifes that you would want to drop or throw into the sink though. Similar in quality (actually even better bang for the buck with one caveat, see below) are the AlMar knives. Also VG-10 steel and you save on the damascus overlayer, which really doesn't sever any functional advantage. The drawback of the Al Mar line to me though is that the handle is very thick and borderlining what I consider comfortable (and my hands aren't exactly small). For the best over all (region $200+) I would go with a custom piece. There are too many options to list. There are some traditional japanese knifemakers that do beautiful work, but really my first choice would be to contact the knifemakers here on bladeforums and ask them what they can offer, and at what price. There are some really sweet pieces floading around that were made by makers that frequent BF. If you are willing to go with a fairly simple design it shouldn't break the bank either.

Oh, forgot: For most sharpening requirements, the Sharpmaker will do fine. You could also buy a set of good quality waterstones: On "medium" and one "fine" grit. Currently, I think my choice would be a Bester 700+ Bester 2000. Really most importantly is the geometry. if the blade comes with a decent geometry, it really doesn't matter much if you sharpen at 15 or 17 deg. I wouldn't go beyond 20 deg per side though.
 
Wow, great answers!! Thank you so much!!

HoB, so I could contact some of the knifemakers here on bladeforums for what they can offer? How can I do that? Is there a link or contact page or something like that? Also, do you know if the final product would be only the blade or the entire piece?

Thanks for all the responses, I look forward to reading and learning much more from you guys! :)



--ORLANDO
 
Of the European knives the ones I have played with are Messmiester , Sabatier , an Wusthof . I dont care for Henkels at all . Of the European knives ,Wusthof is my fave , takes a licking and keeps on ticking , bevel is about 20 degrees . Of the Jananese stuff , the only line I have direct experience is the Shun . Very nice , usually set for about 16 degrees .

Higher end Japanese kitchen is a complicated field , I second the idea of the kitchen knife forums on knife forums .

BTW , your English is very good , better than some of the locals .

My two personal go to knives are the Wusthof Santoku , and their boning knife - a paring knife with some gumption .

IIRC , rockwellc on the Euro. stuff is typically in the mid to high fifties . Shuns are about 59-61 on the rockwell c scale .

Lee Vallet Tools in Canada bought up a lot of old Sabatier stock a few years ago , they had a few vintage models , most have probably been picked over by now .

BTW - welcome !

Chris
 
dejhantulip said:
HoB, so I could contact some of the knifemakers here on bladeforums for what they can offer? How can I do that? Is there a link or contact page or something like that? Also, do you know if the final product would be only the blade or the entire piece?
--ORLANDO
Click to expand...
Your first stop would be the knifemakers subforum and the shoptalk and the gallery. Look around and figure out who's work you like. Most people can be contacted by clicking on the handle name. Some will have a webpage most will have an email. Just write them and ask them what they offer. I am sure they will all be happy to be contacted by a potential customer. Some will of course say that kitchen knives are not their cup of tea, others might have already some patterns, others will be able to make a piece to your specs. Just start the dialogue.
 
Im on my second 4 inch Rapala fillet knife. Dishwasher ruined the first one. Its the one knife that gets used every day. Only 15 bucks. Dont know the Rockwell hardness or the kind of steel. Its very thin and sharp.
 
I'm not really an expert on kitchen knives, sharpening is more my forte', but I can tell you that the edge angle is not exactly critical as long as it's in the range of 15-20 degrees or so. Asfar as sharpening goes, I prefer to use bench stones at least 8 inches long and 2 inches wide. I use a DMT course diamond stone to set the edge, followed by a medium Spyderco alumina ceramic stone (which is really a fine stone), and then I finish up with a fine Spyderco alumina ceramic stone (which is really a very fine stone). Since kitchen knives are so long, you have to either use bench stones to sharpen, or a system like the Apex edge-pro, which is a little pricy. The other systems like Lansksy and similar devices won't work. If you need a little help with your sharpening technique, feel free to ask, or E-mail me, I have successfully coached several people on Blade Forums in the past, and I will be glad to help. P.S. I have a great interest in South African history and poletics. Feel free to E-mail me at smitty0331@msn.com.
 
You are asking about kitchen knives, so I would check foodie forum, Fred's Cutlery section. These people are "kitchen knife nut" and they know what are they talking about. I enjoy this forum a lot.
http://www.foodieforums.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=6

The most used knives on my kitchen are Spydercos. I was able to buy few nice utility knives, which are discontinued. Now available Yang (PE, VG10, 6 "). This is my wife's favorite knife, it is about $45, great deal for this nice pieces of culery with 6" VG10 blade and nice birchwood handle. Also you can get Yin, it is the same size, but SE and black ebony handle.
Want to get Hattory Gyuto...........
 
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