Kizer Gemini vs Alliance designs Jasmine

A

Archimede

Joined
May 18, 2020
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Dear all,
this is my first post, so hallo world!
I just did an impulse buy and took the Alliance Designs Jasmine by Ray Laconico.
I like very much Laconico's designs but I guess I'm not still ready for a custom.
For this reason I passed some time in trying to decide between the Kizer Gemini (about $170) and the Alliance Designs Jasmine ($330).
I finally went for the latter, thinking that is more true the Laconico's custom Jasmine.
That said (I still didn't receive the knife) I have a bit of regret and I wonder if it makes sense to spend as twice as money for a knife that, on paper, has the same specs of the Gemini.
Did anyone try both? Can you tell me if I made a good decision?
Thanks!
 
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FYI, I asked the same question to Alliance Designs directly. This is their answer:

"While on paper, the 2 knives may seem similar, I think it will be quickly evident once the knife is in your hand that our version will feel very different.

We utilize a thicker blade stock, the same specs as what Ray uses on his customs, which we hollow grind by hand, not CNC. We also tune each and every model by hand to have a great, consistently snappy detent. Fit and finish, including blade centering, will also be top notch, just like Ray’s customs. We have been told countless times that we have been able to capture the essence of our designers’ designs in our work and we are very proud of that. Long story short, although we are a production knife company, we try our best to lean more on hand craftsmanship and attention to detail than pumping out high volumes."

I like what he says and I look forward to check the Jasmine in my hands. Will post my impressions.
 
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I have no experience with the models in question... but, from my (admittedly) limited experience with both brands, I would pay the extra money for the Alliance Designs.
 
Archimede said:
FYI, I asked the same question to Alliance Designs directly. This is their answer:
"
While on paper, the 2 knives may seem similar, I think it will be quickly evident once the knife is in your hand that our version will feel very different.

We utilize a thicker blade stock, the same specs as what Ray uses on his customs, which we hollow grind by hand, not CNC. We also tune each and every model by hand to have a great, consistently snappy detent. Fit and finish, including blade centering, will also be top notch, just like Ray’s customs. We have been told countless times that we have been able to capture the essence of our designers’ designs in our work and we are very proud of that. Long story short, although we are a production knife company, we try our best to lean more on hand craftsmanship and attention to detail than pumping out high volumes."

I like what he says and I look forward to check the Jasmine in my hands. Will post my impressions.
Click to expand...

One thing jumps out at me here. Is a thicker blade stock better for your needs? How much thicker is it?
 
Chronovore Chronovore 0.154 rwl34 vs 0.118 s35vn

A Archimede I trust you noticed that the Alliance Designs version is not a flipper.

Having just looked at both knives, I'm going to redact my earlier statement *unless there is a version of the AD knife that wasn't shown. To be clear, my issue with the AD is entirely with the milled holes. While I still have three knives with such holes in the handle (one a limited release - unused in its original box) that I like, it is a design feature I have come to dislike; and I haven't purchased a knife with holes in the scales in 20 yrs, regardless of how much I like the rest of the design (ie Zinker Urban Trapper). That's my thing, though, and I'm not trying to sway anybody's opinions by stating it. (I also recognize that keeping those olds knives while shunning new knives with similar features doesn't make sense)
 
I have a Gemini from one of the very first runs. I've never handled or looked at the AD Jasmine. My thoughts after comparing both knives:

1. I have no doubt the AD knife is made and finished to a little higher quality. It does appear to have sharper edges all the way around than the Gemini, so comfort in hand may be different.
2. I love a nice hollow grind but I'm not certain that hollow grind on the Jasmine will be enough to make up for the thicker blade stock.
3. As all things in the knife world, you're experiencing the law of diminishing returns. I'm certain that the Jasmine isn't twice the knife as the Gemini, but that's the typical theme when you step up from a $150 knife to a $300 knife. It's kind of a fact in the knife world and we expect to overpay for incremental returns in quality.
4. I personally am a little sick of the grey titanium with blue hardware color scheme that's replicated once again on the Gemini. True, the Gemini was one of the earliest knives to adopt that color combination (in the world of vanilla Ti framelock flippers), but it's getting a little worn out to me. The monochrome look of the Jasmine is more appealing to me at this time.

Good luck, I think either knife will serve you well!
 
Love Laconico's designs, and while the Gemini is a great knife, the Jasmine is definitely more "Laconico". I greatly prefer hollow grind over flat too.
 
Guys thanks so much for your answers!
Just to be sure we are on the same page, this is the AD knife I bought (in bronze): https://alliance-designs.com/collec...d-jasmine-ti-framelock?variant=29889735786582
(I should have posted this at the beginning of this thread)

Regarding the thickness and think that Gemini is 0.12" while the AD Jasmine is 0.15" (also in S35VN); I believe that the hollow grind makes this knife a good cutter.
However, I must say that I'm even more doubtful now :(
For the look and feel I agree with Hackenslash Hackenslash : the titanium + blue (while interesting) seems less appealing to me than the bronze version I bought.

hhmoore hhmoore It seems to me that this is a flipper: am I wrong? They state this in the website and it looks like this in the photos. What I miss?

Any other thoughts? I should receive the knife on Friday and I'll let you know.
 
Archimede said:
Guys thanks so much for your answers!
Just to be sure we are on the same page, this is the AD knife I bought (in bronze): https://alliance-designs.com/collec...d-jasmine-ti-framelock?variant=29889735786582
(I should have posted this at the beginning of this thread)

Regarding the thickness and think that Gemini is 0.12" while the AD Jasmine is 0.15" (also in S35VN); I believe that the hollow grind makes this knife a good cutter.
However, I must say that I'm even more doubtful now :(
For the look and feel I agree with Hackenslash Hackenslash : the titanium + blue (while interesting) seems less appealing to me than the bronze version I bought.

hhmoore hhmoore It seems to me that this is a flipper: am I wrong? They state this in the website and it looks like this in the photos. What I miss?

Any other thoughts? I should receive the knife on Friday and I'll let you know.
Click to expand...
This is why I included the disclaimer *unless there is a version of the AD that wasn't shown. I'm back to my initial response - I would buy that one over the Kizer without a moment's hesitation. I had looked up the knife on a popular vendor site - all they had were versions with milled holes, and they were definitely not flippers. (the latter matters not to me, in fact, I prefer thumbstuds). It was listed on that site as RWL34.
View attachment 1343767

Archimede said:
hhmoore hhmoore can you please explain to me why milled holes are bad for you? Sorry, noob here :)
Click to expand...
I thought I did...I simply have grown to dislike them (I dislike the aesthetic). The ones I have are tolerable to me - likely because I've had them for so long (20 yrs)...but also because the holes are smaller, I think. Regardless of why I'm okay with them, I wouldn't buy these knives today.
View attachment 1343776
 
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thanks!! and thanks for explaining again about milled holes: I understand now that is an aesthetic preference and not a functional one.
I was not sure, and I was wondering if in the long run milled holes could create problems.
 
hhmoore said:
Chronovore Chronovore 0.154 rwl34 vs 0.118 s35vn
Click to expand...

Thanks for giving us the stats. I just dusted off my calipers and checked the pocket knives in my extended EDC rotation. Here is what I learned:

Some of my Civivi knives are around 0.118" and have a hollow grind. They are great slicers.

My thickest blade stock is in the Bestech Spike at 0.148". It's a flat grind. It isn't terrible but I definitely feel the increased drag while running it through cardboard.

My thinnest blade stocks are both from Kizer and also flat grinds. The Mini Domin and the Tangram Amarillo are right around 0.01". They really sail through cardboard.

Of course, I'm putting the whole height of the blade through the cardboard I cut. So it should be no surprise that total thickness matters more than the contour of the grind. The question is what you'll be cutting and how. Personally, I'd go with the thinner stock.
 
Guys, just received the knife today.
I'll use it few days and I'll make a short of quick review.

First feelings: very high quality, perfect centering, no blade play, smooth and quick, very sharp out of the box. Bronze is nice under sunlight.
 
Dear all,
I'd like to follow up. I received the Jasmine AD few weeks ago and I had it with me daily. I used the knife for basic tasks like food preparation, box/paper cutting etc.
As I mentioned, it came very sharp, with perfect centering and a very nice flipper action.
I also had the chance to borrow from a friend the Kizer Gemini and I compared the two.
The Gemini is a very nice knife (my friend told me that it had a centering problem that he fixed) and the feel in the hands is amazing.
However, I must say that the Jasmine is at another level: the finishing, the texture of the scales, the details on the blade make it a really nice object.
So, even if I believe that the Gemini is a really fine knife and you cannot go wrong with it (at least on par with ZT0450 or Spyderco Para 3), I'm finally happy that I went for the Jasmine.

Hope it helps
 
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Interesting thread.
I had the Gemini some time ago, and ended up selling it.
And I just recently bought the AD Jasmine.
I’ll agree that the Jasmine is a higher quality piece. I’m not certain if I’ll keep it long term (I can be picky, and even a bit wishy-washy if Ima being honest.)
 
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