Klaas Kissing Cranes folder

T

TheTruthWithin

Joined
Oct 21, 2022
Messages
11
I recently purchased an estate lot of knives looking for low cost old knives to practice restoration technique on. I saw what i thought might be a hammer and maybe an imperial, 2 others I wasn't sure at all. Turns out this is one of them. I don't want to do anything to this guy until i find out more about it. Can anyone help me out?
sFvdUq0.jpeg
0MbBRa5.jpeg

Update:
Thanks for the replies everybody. Good information. Here's where Im at now with this. I was pretty hesitant to remove the scales because i wasn't 100% sure the klaas was the culprit. The 3 other knives it came with appeared to have all been stored together in a watch box for a period of time. The imperial i think had celluloid film on one side, other side was bare already, the little green/black western i dont know much about, and the other with the red scales i assume is an old imperial or camillus because the stamp just says usa.
But how old? Most celluloid was lighter in color and semi translucent, but there's also green black and less commonly red. Im a bit worried about that guy.
Either way i picked at the corner of scale on the klaas and it lifted free no tools required. So that's bad. And there was a mysterious black liquid. Which is bad. So i pulled the scales off, saved the shield, gave all 4 a bath and an oiling.
k4Rtikd.jpeg

I do worry about the red one because the corrosion was pretty aggressive looking. This is the before.
MJ3MAvG.jpg

What do you fellas think?
 
Last edited:
My German history is non-existent, but "PRUSSIA" makes it pretty old. Was it Otto Von Bismarck who unified the German states, and was he still alive to be a figurehead in Hitler's early days?
 
If memory serves Otto united Germany somewhere around the late 1880s
Hitler was old enough to serve in WW1
So I'd guess he was born in the late 1890s

Sorry this isn't really my area of expertise but I think that's about right
 
The popularity for use of celluloid on knife handles really took off in the early 1920's, and Prussia was dissolved around mid 1930's. So that at least helps give it a date range for its age.
 
Nature Boy said:
I think that celluloid is out gassing. If so, it would be foolish not to remove the covers.
Click to expand...
Agree. Judging by the dark corrosion on the blades, the covers are outgassing. One of the covers looks like it might be sagging in a small area, but that  could just be the lighting.

1) Once celluloid starts outgassing, there is no way to stop it.
2) Store/display all celluloid knives separated from other knives (including those with celluloid covers) keep each knife in solitary confinement in a ziplock baggie or canning jar with lid.
3) Check often (at least weekly, IMHO. Like cancer, it is better to catch it early, rather than later.) for sign of outgassing. Remove the covers at the first signs of outgassing. (If you DIY new covers can be glued on. It isn't necessarily necessary to take the knife apart for new cover pins, if you decide to glue them on.)
On your particular knife, if you do take it apart, you could delete the broken blade. In the picture, it looks like the broken blade and the primary blade are on the same spring. I'd leave it a two spring. the nail nick on the file blade might be blocked by the primary blade if you tried to move it to the same spring as the primary, not to mention the thickness of the fingernail file and lack of kinking will prevent it from working on the same spring, anyway.
 
Last edited:
Is the red two blade clam shell construction (bolsters and covers one piece, held to the liners by tabs)? I can't see a center pin.
The not severely rusted side has the "typical" corrosion pattern that indicates outgassing: What's visible of the blade when closed has dark corrosion, while the portion inside the blade well isn't corroded.
As for the severely rusted side, it looks like it was partially submerged in a wet tray compartment of a tackle box or something.
TBH with that much rust it is surprising the blades were not rusted shut.

If you're going to be taking the knives apart to improve your skills anyway, I would suggest playing it safe and remove the covers and "skateboard tape" on the Imperial's and other knives that have it.
The red one  looks like the jigged portion is painted (typical of shell knives with jigged "covers", so it is probably free of celluloid, if it is. It is likely the victim of outgassing celluloid near it, and soaking in water.
 
Last edited:
afishhunter said:
Is the red two blade clam shell construction (bolsters and covers one piece, held to the liners by tabs)? I can't see a center pin.
The not severely rusted side has the "typical" corrosion pattern that indicates outgassing: What's visible of the blade when closed has dark corrosion, while the portion inside the blade well isn't corroded.
As for the severely rusted side, it looks like it was partially submerged in a wet tray compartment of a tackle box or something.
TBH with that much rust it is surprising the blades were not rusted shut.

If you're going to be taking the knives apart to improve your skills anyway, I would suggest playing it safe and remove the covers and "skateboard tape" on the Imperial's and other knives that have it.
The red one  looks like the jigged portion is painted (typical of shell knives with jigged "covers", so it is probably free of celluloid, if it is. It is likely the victim of outgassing celluloid near it, and soaking in water.
Click to expand...
The sides are seperate from the bolsters but only held with 2 pins. I think I'll take them off because they're loose and corroded underneath. And for practice.
As for the original knife in question, for you or anyone else interested, I did a bit of looking. Kissing cranes operated between 1856 and 1914. Klass married into a family of straightrazor makers i believe and so kissing cranes was their joint venture. Prussia became unified as the northern confederation of germany and from 1871 forward was known as Germany. Thus the knife is from 1856-1871. It's a cool piece of history that i will be a great conversation piece for me. Thank you for your time and replies friend.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top