KME questions

highestpoint

highestpoint

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I just got the deluxe kit in the mail and I have only sharpened two knives. Started with the 50 grit and worked my way up to the 1500 grit on their diamond series.

At this point after the 1500 diamond grit where should I go from there? Should I try the ceramic stones or buy the arkansas translucent? Even though the ceramic stones it comes with are lower grit, where they are ceramic shouldn't they polish and leave a less toothy edge from the diamonds?

I'm having the most trouble with the tip. I've rounded it several times, not terribly but enough to notice in light. That along with not being able to remove sharpie along a half inch of the tip after using the 50 grit diamond for quite a wile. I wasn't trying to get such a huge burr on the rest of the edge so I switched sides and focused on the tip. Then still couldn't get a burr from the other side, swapped it and did that process a couple more times. Still didn't get it as decent as the rest of the blade but it's not dull or have a burr on either side. Does this mean the knife needs to be clamped in a different position?

The only other sharpening process I've used a Dia-Sharp Course/Fine flat stone and then used the Sharpmaker rods Medium/Fine/Ultra Fine freehand and then stropped with DMT .5 Micron paste, so this is my first clamping system.
 
Search you tube and yahoo videos from KME, Dean O, knife crazy and others,
gotta confirm proper angle with a sharpie, get a burr and dont go more than 1/4
of the stones width or roll beyond the tip.
There's plenty of info to get you going.
 
D-der said:
Search you tube and yahoo videos from KME, Dean O, knife crazy and others,
gotta confirm proper angle with a sharpie, get a burr and dont go more than 1/4
of the stones width or roll beyond the tip.
There's plenty of info to get you going.
Click to expand...

I have watched a lot of the videos from DeanO and KnifeKrazy and KME themselves and thought I was doing it right but apparently not.

I was working to try and get the burr and the actual edge of the tip with the 50 grit for about 30+ minutes but just couldn't ever get it. I'm guessing that the knife needs to be clamped more towards the tip than I had placed it originally. The bevel towards the tip is a little bit longer than back towards the heel of the blade too.
 
The Deluxe kit should include the kangaroo leather strop and 4 micron CBN emulsion.

So after using the 1500 grit stones jump to the strop with emulsion.

Be sure to view the above referenced YT vids for details.
 
TravisH said:
The Deluxe kit should include the kangaroo leather strop and 4 micron CBN emulsion.

So after using the 1500 grit stones jump to the strop with emulsion.

Be sure to view the above referenced YT vids for details.
Click to expand...

I did go to the 4 micron CBN on the strop and couldn't tell any difference. Might have to do it for quite some time. In most of those videos they have the translucent stone so skipping that going to the strops 4 micron and down doesn't really yield any "extra" results.
 
I have a KME and love it, btw. I have diamond stones from 50 to 1500 grit, plus two kangaroo strops, one with 4 micron solution & the other with 1.5 micron solution.

When I insert a knife into the clamp, I measure the distance from the universal joint to the edge at the tip and to the edge at the hilt. I reposition the knife until I get the same distance.

If you're working with diamond stones & cannot erase the Sharpie, then you are off the existing angle of the blade grind.
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MAD777 said:
I have a KME and love it, btw. I have diamond stones from 50 to 1500 grit, plus two kangaroo strops, one with 4 micron solution & the other with 1.5 micron solution.

When I insert a knife into the just, I measure the distance from the universal joint to the edge at the tip and to the edge at the hilt. I reposition the knife until I get the same distance.

If you're working with diamond stones & cannot erase the Sharpie, then you are off the existing angle of the blade grind.
Click to expand...

I understand that I'm not removing any steel from the edge but after using the 50 grit for half an hour start to get that eventually? 30 minutes grinding with the beast feels like an eternity and I feel like I'm doing more harm than good as I can see the blade start to become metallic and it has the shavings start to stand up. Was a little surprised at that.

I might try that little trick with the measurements. Do you have an angle cube as well? I tried to download one of the apps for my phone but my phone has uneven edges so it's hard to get it even.
 
You don't want to form a burr with 50grit diamond. Dean o explains this in one of his videos. He shows a magnifying view on it and how it just rips it. Form a burr with a higher grit than that.

Also clamp the blade on the flattest part of the knife with even distance between the entire surface that you will sharpen. Check the angle with the angle gauge then flip it and verify its the same. If it's off a degree or two that might still work, I never get exactly angle on both sides but I have had to adjust it alot to make sure they were as close as possible.

Also did you wear your stones in prior to using them on your nice knives?

I personally finish dependent on the blade steel and what I'm cutting. Almost never do mirror edges as I feel they loose their edge faster and toothy edges also cut better for what I cut most often, cardboard. if I need on some steel I'll take it off the KME and finish on ceramic extra fine and strop on .5micron compound... Tho I strop after sharpening regardless to remove the burr.
 
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Mo2 said:
You don't want to form a burr with 50grit diamond. Dean o explains this in one of his videos. He shows a magnifying view on it and how it just rips it. Form a burr with a higher grit than that.

Also clamp the blade on the flattest part of the knife with even distance between the entire surface that you will sharpen. Check the angle with the angle gauge then flip it and verify its the same. If it's off a degree or two that might still work, I never get exactly angle on both sides but I have had to adjust it alot to make sure they were as close as possible.

Also did you wear your stones in prior to using them on your nice knives?

I personally finish dependent on the blade steel and what I'm cutting. Almost never do mirror edges as I feel they loose their edge faster and toothy edges also cut better for what I cut most often, cardboard. if I need on some steel I'll take it off the KME and finish on ceramic extra fine and strop on .5micron compound... Tho I strop after sharpening regardless to remove the burr.
Click to expand...

I'll have to search for that video but in the concept of sharpening wouldn't one want to for a burr with the base layer anyway because the apex would then have a secondary bevel if you're not taking all the steel off that side..

About how long or how many knives would I have to go through before they're "worn in"? Still having trouble getting a burr on the tip without rolling it. I did find that I can do a single upstroke and it helps to not roll the tip but it's still not perfect.

My bevel towards the tip of the blade is still a lot wider than towards the heel even though they're the same distance.. Could this be because of the blade grind or what?
 
highestpoint said:
I'll have to search for that video but in the concept of sharpening wouldn't one want to for a burr with the base layer anyway because the apex would then have a secondary bevel if you're not taking all the steel off that side..

About how long or how many knives would I have to go through before they're "worn in"? Still having trouble getting a burr on the tip without rolling it. I did find that I can do a single upstroke and it helps to not roll the tip but it's still not perfect.

My bevel towards the tip of the blade is still a lot wider than towards the heel even though they're the same distance.. Could this be because of the blade grind or what?
Click to expand...

You do want a burr on the "base layer"... but you don't want to do it with the 50g stone, because it's so aggressive it will leave large chips in the edge that you'll have to grind out with the finer stones. Save the 50g stone for larger work (lowering the angle or grinding in a new bevel for example). When you see the scratches of that stone just starting to reach the edge, switch to the next higher stone.

If you''re having trouble telling whether or not you have a burr... try marking the edge with a Sharpie and check and see if you're reaching the edge. Not sure what you mean by "rolling the tip"... are you grinding the point off? If so, just never let the stone go more than half its width across the tip... that should keep it from rotating around and grinding it off.

The bevel toward the tip may be a little wider, since on most knives as the edge curves toward the tip it also goes into thicker metal. Many manufacturers compensate for this by raising the angle as they approach the tip... so when you put it on a guided system, you'll notice the difference. However, you don't set the blade so that the heel and the tip are the "same distance". In most cases, you'll want the tip closer because the angle doesn't change on the straight part, it changes on the curve of the belly toward the tip... so you set the knife based on the belly/tip area. See this LINK for more info.
 
"so you set the knife based on the belly/tip area. " :thumbup:

^ This works well for me.


Ray
 
cbwx34 said:
The bevel toward the tip may be a little wider, since on most knives as the edge curves toward the tip it also goes into thicker metal. Many manufacturers compensate for this by raising the angle as they approach the tip... so when you put it on a guided system, you'll notice the difference. However, you don't set the blade so that the heel and the tip are the "same distance". In most cases, you'll want the tip closer because the angle doesn't change on the straight part, it changes on the curve of the belly toward the tip... so you set the knife based on the belly/tip area. See this LINK for more info.
Click to expand...
Thanks, ill try this. setting the tip/belly this way.
the link didnt work for me or i didnt exactly see it, so ill post it again http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1339022-angles-on-clamp-style-devices
 
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I've been using my kme for a few months and there are a few things I wish I would have known going in.

Number one would be take your time on the tip and never use more than half the stone. Especially with the lower grits. It only take a couple of passes to round a tip.

Number 2. Use the sharpie trick and the 100 or 140 stones for reprofiling. When you're getting close to the very edge switch over to the 300 grit. Spend a lot of time here as it will determine how well the rest of the grits go. For me personally this gets me the most refined edge the easiest.

Number 3. With regards to the bevel widening at the tip. Before sharpening take a long look at the grind of your knife. If it is especially thick behind the edge at the tip make sure to move the clamp as close as possible to the tip. Use the sharpie trick to see how your angle will vary. A good example of a knife that widens substantially at the tip would be the sebenza 21.

Lastly I get the best all around and longest lasting cutting performance from adding a 3-4 degree microbevel with the 600 grit stone and then stropping with 4 and 1.5 micron. I usually bring the secondary bevel to a decent polish too first just because I prefer the looks.

This is just my 2 cents and as always your results will vary.

One more thing I forgot. In my experience usually to little pressure is better than too much



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lucasw45 said:
I've been using my kme for a few months and there are a few things I wish I would have known going in.

Number one would be take your time on the tip and never use more than half the stone. Especially with the lower grits. It only take a couple of passes to round a tip.

Number 2. Use the sharpie trick and the 100 or 140 stones for reprofiling. When you're getting close to the very edge switch over to the 300 grit. Spend a lot of time here as it will determine how well the rest of the grits go. For me personally this gets me the most refined edge the easiest.

Number 3. With regards to the bevel widening at the tip. Before sharpening take a long look at the grind of your knife. If it is especially thick behind the edge at the tip make sure to move the clamp as close as possible to the tip. Use the sharpie trick to see how your angle will vary. A good example of a knife that widens substantially at the tip would be the sebenza 21.

Lastly I get the best all around and longest lasting cutting performance from adding a 3-4 degree microbevel with the 600 grit stone and then stropping with 4 and 1.5 micron. I usually bring the secondary bevel to a decent polish too first just because I prefer the looks.

This is just my 2 cents and as always your results will vary.

One more thing I forgot. In my experience usually to little pressure is better than too much
Click to expand...

Great post! :thumbup:
 
I completely agree with your advice about the KME too but I generally strop on newsprint, a magazine cover or denim because I'm too cheap to purchase a dedicated strop and find it works fine for me. :D
 
lucasw45 said:
I've been using my kme for a few months and there are a few things I wish I would have known going in.

Number one would be take your time on the tip and never use more than half the stone. Especially with the lower grits. It only take a couple of passes to round a tip.

Number 2. Use the sharpie trick and the 100 or 140 stones for reprofiling. When you're getting close to the very edge switch over to the 300 grit. Spend a lot of time here as it will determine how well the rest of the grits go. For me personally this gets me the most refined edge the easiest.

Number 3. With regards to the bevel widening at the tip. Before sharpening take a long look at the grind of your knife. If it is especially thick behind the edge at the tip make sure to move the clamp as close as possible to the tip. Use the sharpie trick to see how your angle will vary. A good example of a knife that widens substantially at the tip would be the sebenza 21.

Lastly I get the best all around and longest lasting cutting performance from adding a 3-4 degree microbevel with the 600 grit stone and then stropping with 4 and 1.5 micron. I usually bring the secondary bevel to a decent polish too first just because I prefer the looks.

This is just my 2 cents and as always your results will vary.

One more thing I forgot. In my experience usually to little pressure is better than too much
Click to expand...

Really appreciate all the feedback guys!... & maybe gals but anyway.

I did find out that I do better with the tip if I just make upstrokes instead of coming back down. Helps me from wanting to rotate the stone holder. The knife I did round the tip on though had a decent belly so that could've contributed to that and also the steeper bevel as you mentioned.

The one I started sharpening last night and then finished this morning worked out a lot better. I only added 2 degrees to the micro bevel but wish I would've gone with the 3 or 4 you mentioned. Lets say I was wanting to make it a 3 or 4 degree bevel. Should I just set it up another degree or two and start with the 300 grit and work up to the 1500 or would that make the blade have 3 bevels? I would assume if I did enough on each side it would remove that second bevel so I would only be down to two.

I am probably definitely over thinking this.

Also does the fine Arkansas stone that came with the deluxe kit have more polishing effect than the 1500 grit diamond stone? or will it refine the edge better? My knives don't feel sharp but they will still shave and slice paper but its an odd feeling.
 
You're best bet is going to be going back to down in grit and reset your main bevel completely. Which yes is going to be a pain. This time make sure that it is easily slicing paper and the hairs are popping off your arm before you move up from the 300 grit.

This reminds me. Are you finishing each stone with a stroke pattern on 6,5,4,3,2,1 per side using only upward passes?

The fine Arkansas should also refine your edge further. Is it a black or translucent? You have to be careful when transitioning between the diamonds and the Arkansas because they are a different thickness and this will change the angle.

As for microbevels if you ask 10 people you'll get 15 different answers haha many only use 2 or 3 strokes per side on the highest grit they have. With all techniques I think the key is light pressure and upward strokes only. For me I do it one of 2 ways.

Most knives I use only the 600 grit hone and do 5,4,3,2,1 up strokes per side. Gives a slightly toothy edge that will cut anything you'll ever need it to for a long time. And don't get me wrong it's still plenty sharp. It will easily slice phone book paper.

The second way I do it I set it up the the same way and use the same pattern as the first one except this time I start with the 1500 grit diamond then move to the black fine Arkansas and lastly I'll take it off the clamp and finish with a few passes on a stropman strop loaded with his green compound

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