KMG clone set up question?

D

Dixieblade57

Joined
Jun 20, 2007
Messages
1,361
I am about to finally complete a KMG clone grinder. It has been a slow project with everything else that has been going on, in my life this past year or so.

Due to the fact that my shop is small and I have a bad back and moving things around lends itself to have as much of my shop on wheels as possible. It also it helps for me to have good daylight when possible to grind with my eyesight these days. My grinder is being set up on a cart with locking wheels to allow to accommodate for moving it around when necessary. I don't have a real good picture of the completed cart itself at this time and it is too late tonight to get one.

My grinder will be set up with a 10" wheel. I am trying to figure out when the 10" wheel is on the grinder what would be the best distance to set it up in relation to the edge of the work table?
In otherwords lets say when the sanding belt is on and properly tensioned what is the distance say "from center of the 10" wheel to the edge of the table"?

The grinder is going to be set up so the belt drops thru the table to the motor underneath the table. So once I cut the hole for the belt I will be limited to how much I can actually move the grinder itself!

Here are a few pics of the grinder set up trying to further explain what I am asking about! As you can see the cart will have to have hole cut in it to allow the belt to drop thru for the motor belt up.

Click thumbnails for larger view:

This is a photo looking down on the handle of the cart and where the grinder is setting now. I have removed the sanding belt to aid in seeing the grinder and wheel.





Can some of you who use a 10" wheel on a KMG or clone, with sanding belt installed and tensioned, measure from center of the wheel to the edge of your table to give me a good idea where to cut this hole in the cart for my belt to drop thru to the motor? My thought here is to get this grinder positoned right the first time to allow for the best work area, around a 10" wheel.
Or am I overthinking this! Is the amount a 10" wheel overhangs over the edge of the work table even a big issue?
 
Last edited:
Nice looking machine Dixie. Looks pretty much the same setup that I am building right now, though you look to be just ahead of me and my KMG build. And I also set up to have the motor mounted below through the table exactly as you did, so great minds think alike:D. Mine is set up initially to use the flat platen with the rest, so I haven't considered the wheel set up as yet. I don't think your question applies with a rest set up.

But otherwise I'm not sure why it matters how far from the edge the wheel would be, or am I missing something. You are not resting on the table edge, and since there's overhang, its not a support issue either. I would do what makes best use of the space you have since the wheel will be sticking out, it makes storage more difficult. Sorry thats all that comes to mind. Maybe you can clarify for me.

I did purchase a 10" wheel from grizzly but will need to open up the bore so it will accept a set of bearings, so you are way ahead of me right now. Did you build your wheel or purchase one??

In any case I am interested if you get any other replies, since it may help with my setup
 
drivadesl said:
Nice looking machine Dixie. Looks pretty much the same setup that I am building right now, though you look to be just ahead of me and my KMG build. And I also set up to have the motor mounted below through the table exactly as you did, so great minds think alike:D. Mine is set up initially to use the flat platen with the rest, so I haven't considered the wheel set up as yet. I don't think your question applies with a rest set up.

But otherwise I'm not sure why it matters how far from the edge the wheel would be, or am I missing something. You are not resting on the table edge, and since there's overhang, its not a support issue either. I would do what makes best use of the space you have since the wheel will be sticking out, it makes storage more difficult. Sorry thats all that comes to mind. Maybe you can clarify for me.

I did purchase a 10" wheel from grizzly but will need to open up the bore so it will accept a set of bearings, so you are way ahead of me right now. Did you build your wheel or purchase one??

In any case I am interested if you get any other replies, since it may help with my setup
Click to expand...

That is 10" Gizzly wheel that I had bored for bearings!

My only thoughts on this was that I did not want to create a situation where I was too close to the work edge and did not give myself sufficient work around the wheel for any use of the wheel I might have. Since I have yet to grind a knife on this or any other KMG or clone I don't know what way I might use the wheel, but rest assured I will find ways to use the wheel in which it was probably never thought of. :eek::D
I have been using a small crappy grinder, a 4x24 belt sander, a right angle grinder, and to this point. Files and sandpaper did anything else that they would not do. So yes I am excited to get this grinder up and running but I want to do it with as few as mistakes as possible!

My rest will clear as it sits now, so maybe I am over think this "hole thing" pun intended! I just want to get it right the first time as I have worked hard on the grinder build and the cart itself! Another thing I have to consider is if you look closely in the pics there is a piece of blue tape under the pulleys to remind me not to cut here as there is a cross member of the cart runnning right under that area. Meaning I have either got to shift forward or backward enough to miss this cross member or I have to modify the cross member to allow for the belt!
Which would not be that big of a deal at this stage but I want to figure it all out before I go crazy and start doing a bunch of unnecessary cutting or rebuilding.

I look at it this way lessons learned from one's own mistakes, can be hard lessons too learn, so when I can I try to benefit from others who may have been down this road before me! Maybe someone out there has located a grinder on there chosen work edge, only to find out that now that can't do an operation that they want too with the wheel! Maybe not!
 
Last edited:
My 10" wheel center is about 10" from my bench,in otherwords the back of the wheel is about 5" from the bench.
Stan
 
So Dixie. Could you describe the sequence you used to bore the wheel for the bearings?? I made my own drive wheels and idler, plus the two for the flat platen, and bored the holes to fit two 1/2" wide bearings. I cut a groove and used internal snap rings to create shoulders for the bearings to rest on. I will likely do something similar for the large wheel, but not sure if my lathe can handle the wheel and have no faceplate or chuck that can hold it. I may try cutting the bore on the mill instead, but will have to face the wheel to get a flat surface. I haven't really tried anything yet since I am to busy setting up the table and getting ready to mount the motor. So if you have any comments on this I would appreciate your experience.

Also, since I mentioned the motor mount, I wonder if you wouldn't mind posting a picture of how you mounted yours. I'm planning to have it hang off a shaft with the motor mounted to a plate, set up so that it automatically tensions the belt. I may use a turnbuckle or some threaded arrangement for adjustment.

Thanks if you have anything to add I would appreciate it.
 
drivadesl said:
So Dixie. Could you describe the sequence you used to bore the wheel for the bearings?? I made my own drive wheels and idler, plus the two for the flat platen, and bored the holes to fit two 1/2" wide bearings. I cut a groove and used internal snap rings to create shoulders for the bearings to rest on. I will likely do something similar for the large wheel, but not sure if my lathe can handle the wheel and have no faceplate or chuck that can hold it. I may try cutting the bore on the mill instead, but will have to face the wheel to get a flat surface. I haven't really tried anything yet since I am to busy setting up the table and getting ready to mount the motor. So if you have any comments on this I would appreciate your experience.

Also, since I mentioned the motor mount, I wonder if you wouldn't mind posting a picture of how you mounted yours. I'm planning to have it hang off a shaft with the motor mounted to a plate, set up so that it automatically tensions the belt. I may use a turnbuckle or some threaded arrangement for adjustment.

Thanks if you have anything to add I would appreciate it.
Click to expand...

My shop doesn't include the facilities to do my own pockets for the bearings! In other words no lathe. So I took the Grizzly 10” wheel to a machine shop I know of, which does the unusual work. I told the guy who runs it, what I needed and that the bearing pockets had to be right to eliminate any vibration. The pockets are cut tight and the bearings are pressed into place.
I went to lunch. He called me about 1 hour later and for the measly sum of $35.00 he did it all for me. Pockets and rechecked the balance. He actually wanted $45.00 but I reminded him of all the business I had sent him recently!
It was measly to me as the other shop I check that could do it, quoted me a 1 hour min. and $75.00 an hour.

As for the motor mount I have not got it finished but will try to hand sketch it, as I don’t have a good drawing program and show you what I have in mind!

Remember my motor is being mounted to the cart it sits on. The handle of the cart overhangs the carts end. So there is and upright that is almost perfectly inline with where the 5/8” rod indicated in the drawing will go on this mount.

Click thumbnail for larger view:



It is relatively simple the mount is made with slots like the base ofa the motor this will allow for optimum placement of the motor. The mount is set up with a 5/8” rod as the pivot for the mount. The motors centerline is the purple line I highlighted in the picture. It will be off center from the 5/8” rod. The weight of the motor should allow for all the tension I will need to place on the drive belt. I figure if it is not enough to keep the motor from bouncing I can always place a spring on the end farthest away from the 5/8” rod.



Now you can see why I am trying so hard to locate where the grinder will be placed on the cart. The motor mount will have to made and mounted to the cart after the hole is cut for the belt to drop thru. Everything will be lined up with the pulley above. I will take some photos when I finally finish all this!

However you can do the same with a mounting plate welded to a hinge. The motor attaches to the mounting plate and the weight will keep the belt tensioned, and you raise and lower the motor on the hinge to readjust the belt on your 3 step pullies! Same principal as my drawing, I just don't want my motor taking up room under the carts top. This space will be used for metal storage.
 
Last edited:
It is critical, when boring the pockets for the bearings, that the new bore be as close to perfectly centered and perpendicular as possible. That might be tricky once the OD is tread.

If it were me, I'd probably set it up on a mill and use a coaxial indicator to center on the bore and confirm the mill spindle is well aligned with the axis of the existing bore by indicating up and down the bore. I'd also indicate the side of the rim to assure it was good and truly level, shimming as necessary. You could chuck up a dowel pin and use a strip of paper to touch off the rubber at 12, 3, 6 and 9 o'clock to double check concentricity to the rubber tread. Once I had good alignment I'd single point bore the new pocket. This is the best way I can think of to avoid a wobbly wheel.

To me, setting it up on a lathe and assuring good concentricity would probably be more difficult (in my shop)

$35 is pretty darn cheap. I'd be twice that.
 
Thanks Dixie, the motor mounting arrangement you sketched looks pretty similar to what I had planned. I like this set up, since it makes changing speeds real quick.

If I could pay $35 to get the wheel bored I'd jump on that for sure. Till now, I've made every major part of this grinder, but couldn't pass up the grizzly wheel for $65.

Nathan, thanks for the description. I will be doing exactly what you described to cut the bore for mine. I think a lathe would be the way to go, since I'm more familiar with boring operations on that vs the mill. But my lathe is 10" so not going to cut it. :D My concern is I can be sure the bore is lined up for the cut, but no way to face theopposite side of the wheel to be sure it is square to the bore, since you can only indicate one side before cutting the bore. I guess I can check it with the indicator but if not square what next?? Maybe fly cut it? Hopefully when the wheel was made initially they did it right and it won't be an issue.
 
If you hang a bucket of water off the edge of your bench, to catch the sparks off your wheel that will give you a good idea for position.
 
Dixie, on my KMG the center of the pulley is 18" from the front edge of my bench. Works good with 10" wheel or flat platen. Hope it helps. Good looking build you have there. :thumbup:
 
First thanks to evrybody who had chimed in on this thread. That's what I love about this site!:thumbup:

Like I said when I called my friend he asked when I needed it and I told him of course today, he said there was no way! The other shop capable of doing the operation quoted me a flat rate of $75.00 and hour, and he told me it could be more once he looked at what I needed, and at least two weeks out!

So I showed up at my friends shop before lunch and showed him what I was wanting. Some processes are hard to describe over a phone. He sort of growled at me and told me to go to lunch. The $35.00 was cheap to get my wheel bored especially since he bored the wheel, pressed in the bearings I had and then ran the wheel at speed to check for balance. But then to we know each other from when I used to do cabinet work.

He built an entire machine for another fellow that I bought materials from. The machine feeds boards thru and uses heavy duty wire brushes to scrub the wood, thus creating an aged wood look. I never had the Cahoonas to ask what they charged for making this machine. The cabinets and furniture made from the resulting wood were out of this world, look wise and price wise!:DThere is a lot to that old saying, "its not what you know but who you know"!:D
 
I've got 16" from bench edge to drive axle.
I think between 16" and 20" would be fine.

Since you are not bolted to the ground, I'd think you'd want it as centered up as possible on your cart.
Put a belt on it and see, then mount your motor is my suggestion.
 
Brian Fellhoelter Knives said:
I've got 16" from bench edge to drive axle.
I think between 16" and 20" would be fine.

Since you are not bolted to the ground, I'd think you'd want it as centered up as possible on your cart.
Put a belt on it and see, then mount your motor is my suggestion.
Click to expand...

You are pretty much reading my mind Brian! Now that I have a base for distance for the wheel to overhang its pretty much waiting for the right time to do the fabrication. We were in the 20's here this morning and wind chill pushing it to near the hign teens. I know some of you are saying thats a heat wave but this Florida damn it!
 
Dixieblade57 said:
Click to expand...

With what you have it appears that your base is attached to the grinder, it would be pointless to have your base protrude beyond the cart. As close as your hole is to the cross memver, I'd slide it forward enough to miss it and go with it, or slide the base further to line up with the fron of the cart. Just my .02
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top