Knife adulthood and the $100+ world of collecting

[MikeKu825]

Hello everyone,

This is my first post on any knife forum, but I've spent my entire life around knives and firearms. Through my father and grandfather I've grown to understand the value, versatility, and beauty of knives, but their styles were always much different from my own. My father enjoyed trapper style knives with stag bone, while my grandfather was such a utilitarian that he stuck with his old timer skinners and various Buck 110's right up until he died.

I've begun my own collection in recent years, favoring modern styles and materials. I've generally operated on the principal that $50(+or- $10) can get you a pretty decent, reliable knife. I'm pretty patient, so I don't mind finding a knife I like and waiting for the right deal to surface. I also enjoy learning as much as possible before I make a decision, so as you can imagine.. the knife industry and these forums offer quite a wealth of differing perspectives to consider. I've spent the last 2 years reading everything I can find on different blade steels, sharpening techniques, manufacturers, custom designers and anything related to knives. I've purposely refrained from making any kind of post until I felt I had some sort of basic understanding of the industry, but unfortunately, I've realized there no way for me to achieve the level of scientific understanding I'm looking for with so much online bickering and constant regurgitation of unsubstantiated, uninformed "facts". (If you sense my frustration then you'll know I've spent time on some forums.)

I currently own a modest 20 or so knives from manufacturers such as Buck, Cold Steel, Kershaw, CRKT, Benchmade, SOG..etc. But I recently had an opportunity to handle a ZT0560..and I loved it. So here I am, in all my ignorance, about to take the plunge into the $100+ world of premium knives. I've decided that my first knife will be a ZT0566, and I'm already eyeballing the ZT0562CF. I'm sure that I've started down a slippery slope, and I feel like I'm about to make some really bad financial decisions. I'm sure this is a time period that most of you remember in your own knife collecting careers.

I do have a question about the structural difference between a semi-custom knife like the XM-18 and the production variation, such as the 0566. With so many of the design characteristics being nearly identical, and many materials being the same, what justifies such drastic price differences? Is it merely the name? Granted, I've just started this journey into knife adulthood, but it seems like a knife like the upcoming ZT0562CF has all of the premium materials you would expect in a semi-custom, but for half the price. The leap from $50 knives to $100-$200 seems very justifiable in terms of build quality and material, but beyond that it seems like knives jump in price without an appropriate return in the investment.

 

[Zidfeldts]

Once I spent 100 dollars on a knife it was all down hill from there. Now I look at a 700 dollar folder and think "I would sure like to carry that" and make plans to trade up to get it. I don't know where it ends but I am almost to the stage where a hundred dollar knife is not enough(even though any knife would satisfy my cutting requirements).

 

[Sonnydaze]

I do have a question about the structural difference between a semi-custom knife like the XM-18 and the production variation, such as the 0566. With so many of the design characteristics being nearly identical, and many materials being the same, what justifies such drastic price differences? Is it merely the name? Granted, I've just started this journey into knife adulthood, but it seems like a knife like the upcoming ZT0562CF has all of the premium materials you would expect in a semi-custom, but for half the price.

Welcome, here is a fresh link you might enjoy...it talks about your concerns also....

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...uestion-regarding-Rick-Hinderer-amp-ZT-models

 

[slide13]

In my experience the difference between a high end production knife and a custom, semi-custom, midtech, etc. come down to the details. It can vary from knife to knife and you often have to have it in your hands to fully understand, but the differences are there. They are only worth it if you care about those details and don't want to make sacrifices. I definitely think when you get to the level of a ZT you start seeing diminishing returns for the extra money. That isn't to say the returns aren't there, they just get much smaller compared to the price than they were as you moved up from the $50 range to the $200ish range.

Now, keeping all that in mind, I love custom, semi-custom, and midtech style knives and I think they are worth it for me. I don't like sacrifices, I like spending money on one or two really great pieces. To me having 20 mediocre knives has no appeal but I know a lot of people have a collector mindset and that appeals to them. Different strokes. Some people see a $500 knife and say they could have 10 very nice mediocre production knives for that much. To me, I see 10 mediocre production knives and cannot fathom why someone would choose that over one really fantastic $500 knife that they could carry every day and really learn to love and appreciate over time.

Best thing to do is try to get your hands on one and see for yourself. Maybe you can find a regional knife show to attend?

And just because you get into high end knives doesn't mean you'll never look at lower end too. My interest is mostly slipjoints these days and I have two very nice custom ones from Ken Erickson that I love. But I do have some GEC production knives as well because they can offer some nice variety and they do put out a really solid knife for a production company. I also love alox handled SAKs. I haven't had a modern folder for a long time and recently decided to check one out again. I looked at ZT for a while and it looks like they make some nice stuff but in the end I decided I probably wanted something that was just a little "more"...more in design and construction. Ended up getting a midtech Hoback Kwaiback and couldn't be happier with the knife (well, other than the size...it might end up being a bit big for me....but the quality and design are outstanding).

I think when it comes to knives, if you have the financial means then everyone should try out a high-ish end production knife (like a ZT), a Sebenza (or an SNG if that is more your speed), and a custom or at least a mid-tech. Only then can you find out what is and isn't worth it for you. I've been down the full road and learned where I was most comfortable with and what worked. For me I think the best combination of fit/finish and value is found in a Sebenza or in an affordable custom or midtech.

I miss the days when there were more affordable custom/midtech options...I remember buying a Hinderer Firetac for $350 and a Scott Cook Lochsa for $600....I miss those days and wish I would have kept some of the great knives I once had. It does seem that the custom knife market has gotten quite a bit more expensive these days and I'm very thankful I was able to experience so many great knives when I did because there is no way I could afford it now.

 

[EChoil]

If you like the 0560 so much why don't you buy IT ?

You're into knives enough now to where I believe you will find more expensive knives to, for the most part, be a joy.

When I started collecting long ago I decided to get the expensive stuff FIRST. Then everything is cheaper and downhill from there. Takes the stress out of things.

If you look hard I understand there ARE treatment centers for the addiction, so just enjoy. Nothing like the rush of that first new $700 folder after a month or two in knife re-hab.

 

[303_enfield]

A knife is a tool. The difference in $$$ knife is need or want. You want it, as long as your needs are paid for an not taken from to buy the want your golden. After the 0560 you'll find others that you want. It's a never ending cycle. Enjoy the ride!

 

[gdwtvb]

There is an economic principle called the law of diminishing returns. It is easily demonstrated in the knife world. take a reasonably valued 50-60 dollar knife like a spyderco delica. Decent steel VG-10. Reliable lock. Decent knife. Double it to a Paramilitary 2 and you get a better steel, S30V, G10 scales instead of FRN, and a more ergonomic/advanced lock. As the price goes up so does the materials and fit and finish...but after you reach the hundred dollar level, the price continues to climb quickly while the improvement are smaller and less obvious.

Tighter tolerances, straighter grinds, higher end steels, and better fit and finish etc all take longer to improve, to the point where you are eventually paying massive amounts of money for minuscule improvements.

Also take into account that knives are also bought by many as functional pieces of art. (Don't think you do that? Is your collection displayed?) A real Picasso sells for alot more than a photo/print of a real Picasso. I don't follow Hinderer, but I would think that he probably puts more care into making a knife that bares his name than the people on the ZT factory floor. Not bad, just different.

My best advice to you is to buy what you like. Don't expect to make money. And don't spend more than you comfortably can.

Grizz

 

[22-rimfire]

You are approaching the point of diminishing returns on a knife. I certainly can tell the difference between a $50 and $100 knife. Slide13 mentioned that he's into slipjoints and has liked the GEC offerings. I do too and most of the larger ones are over $100 depending on handle material, maybe quite a bit over $100.

I also like Vic SAKs and carry one of these everyday. Knives don't have to be expensive to be fairly good.

It was very hard for me to finally decide to buy a ZT. Every 5th thread here in General was about a ZT.... Well, this spring I finally took the plunge with a 0770CF and couldn't be more pleased. I have been EDCing it since I got it. The more expensive slipjoints are the ones that I have trouble carrying due to price. But my favorite is a jigged bone two bladed GEC #42.

I have been trying to be open to carring any knife I purchase in the last year or so. The only one of recent vintage that I still resist carrying is an elephant ivory Northwoods Madison that I love. Actually have a jigged bone version too, so if I want to carry that pattern, I am not forced into using the ivory.

I have moderately price custom fixed blades and my woods knife of choice has become a Dozier Pro Guide. Most of my Doziers are not used, but I suppose I would if I had the need.