knife companies lack of originality

J

jcs71

Joined
Mar 30, 2006
Messages
138
Is it my imagination or have the big knife companies like Gerber, Sog, Al MAr and a couple of others from the 80's and 90's that had a huge selection of fixed blades with no serrations or gimmicks on their sheaths dropped the ball with originality?
It seems every time I open up one of their catalogs I see the same thing, dissapointment.
Gerber who used to have alot of great fixed blades now doesn't even produce any of them. Like the Bmf, original Lmf, Mk2, Mk1 etc. Those are the models that so to say made them real famous back then. Now it seems like they don't want to make blades longer than 6 inches.
Al Mar who definately had some of the finest fixed blades around now doesn't have the guts to produce blades over 5 inches. Again their original line up is no longer made.
Sog, who's catalog I have gotten today, I feel has fallen down like the others. Even though they still produce fixed blades you can't get most of them without the latest greatest serrations that just has to plague almost every fixed blade these days.
So my question is to you and to these companies what happen to originality? Like these companies producing their original line up just the way they used to be produced. Without any gimmicks or serrations or any of the latest tacticool crap.
Sorry for the rant, but I am sick of these companies not having the testicular(spell) fortitude to not only keep their original line up but keep them the way they used to be made, and to quit falling for B.S. ideas from some supposed spec ops person who happens to be careless with a knife. Example the dummy that came up with the Groove cut-out in the kydex sheaths on Sog's sheaths. The idea was to cut paracord with your knife still in the sheath by using this groove. Think about it! What are you going to do, move that entire piece of string that might be tied around an object around to the side of your body and around your gear just to use that stupid groove that reveals part of your edge to the elements just to cut that string? Or are you just going to pull your knife or folder out and cut the d#$% line.
Again, sorry for the rant.:mad:

Mods, if this is in the wrong section please move. Thank you.
 
I suppose as long as they sell knives and haven't gone bankrupt, they're doing something right.

I think you're just not their target audience. I received a nice knife catalog today, no interest at all in what they where offering. If I was a traditional slippie collector then it would be right on target, but I'm not.
 
Its all about what sells... Not profitable to keep a line thats not selling well.
Chances are if those items were still good sellers, they would still be making them.
 
The good news is that the market is Full of quality knives, FB or folder. If not, find a good maker and have one made for you.
 
I find the notch on the sog sheath is practical, for canoing and setting quick shelter, as for the companies producing only a certain variety of knives would be entirely due to consumerism.

If they don't sell why produce them?

Then again there's so much competition in cutlery, finding a knife that meets your criteria isn't too hard to find.
 
Everything you guys said is true, but I still can't help but feel that some of those would still sell. For example, people are still trying to buy Gerber mk2's and Bmf's. Al MArs blades were, I thought highly reguarded and sought after. That is why they were always backordered.
When you look at the for sale forums and run across some adds for these knives I can't help but feel this way. Maybe I am living to much in the past and regret not being able to get some of them. Possilble.
I know there are other companies as well as custom makers out there. I just hate the thought of asking a custom maker to make a copy of an older factory knife, but in a way I guess that is what they get paid for. Thanks for the replies so far.:thumbup:
 
I think as long as there making money with the desighns they have, there is no reson to come out with new ones. I think Almar has a good set of knives avaiable right now!!!
 
Not to plug a specific knifemaker, but I think some of your points are why Bark River K&T has what seems to be a loyal following — their regular release of new fixed blade designs as well as sticking with the proven designs — not to mention the availability of every handle material known to man :)

And, as has been mentioned, consider buying from a custom maker. Discovering a (nearly) one-of-a-kind knife that strikes my fancy, at a price I'm willing to pay, from a one-man shop has added a whole new dimension to the hobby for me.
 
Some companies, like Buck, have done a very good job of retaining their classic models while also introducing new tacticals.
 
xbanker said:
Not to plug a specific knifemaker, but I think some of your points are why Bark River K&T has what seems to be a loyal following — their regular release of new fixed blade designs as well as sticking with the proven designs — not to mention the availability of every handle material known to man :)

And, as has been mentioned, consider buying from a custom maker. Discovering a (nearly) one-of-a-kind knife that strikes my fancy, at a price I'm willing to pay, from a one-man shop has added a whole new dimension to the hobby for me.
Click to expand...

The secret behind Bark River is no secret at all. They actually listen to their customers and don't play hide the salami on model runs.

I write to Case once a year asking for a run of V-42 reproduction stilettos. They'd obviously sell every last one, but apparently they don't care about making money for their masters at Zippo.

I used to ask Gerber for a "Mark III" or at least a nostalgia run of the Mark II. Years after I gave up, they are apparently stirring to make another Mark II. Chances are high that they'll cheap it out and offshore it though. If they don't I'm down for a fistful.

I asked Benchmade to replace the 806 with a least a new interpretation of it. Silence.

I asked Spyderco for an Generation 4 Endura Salt. Sal said "No." At least he listens.:D

I have found myself buying knives from companies who at least politely listen to me.

Funny how that happens.
 
Amen. Exactly why Mike at BRK & T is selling everything he makes. He makes what his customer's want . . . novel approach huh?

Hey Gerber, how about more Mark II's like the old ones with the gray handles. Simply change the serial numbers, etc and no one will confuse with an old one. What about an LMF II without serrations as an option. How hard would it be to make a run of say 100 without the serrations and oh I don't know, see if they sell? Seems like the KA-BAR Co is the only mass produced knife that offers all the options from serrations, kydex, stainless to the old tried and true 1095 with leather washers version.

I will take this a step further, why wouldn't all the production companies do like BRK & T, and actually ask "their customers" what they would spend their hard-earned money on! Aside from artists and musicians who only make their art for themselves, the rest of the crowd lives by the profit margin. Is there no profit in a Gerber Mark II or an LMF without the serrations?

I think I am just wasting valuable energy on a concept that only a few makers seem to get. Make what people want, stand behind superior customer service, and watch your business continue to grow upward. Remember, its not a bad problem to have to be behind in your production because the demand exceeded your expectations!!!!

Enough ranting, I'm going to the Bark River Forum were everyone is happy and are looking for spare funds to buy yet another customer feedback design.

Dan
 
Personally, I don't think there have been many "true" innovations for the past 2000 years. Aside from newer steels and handle materials, all designs have probably been thought-of and tried over the millenia. What really happens is some knife designer may draq-out a forgotten design and it becomes popular again. Tantos, convex grinds, appleseed points would be examples of age-old designs becoming popular again.

Economically, larger companies must make knives that sell well in order to survive. How many KABARS or Buck 110s are sold v. handmades? They will jump aboard if an item really takes off -Tanto blades for example.

Even companies like BRKT can only make relatively small runs of knves -usually a few hundred if IIRC, and Mike Stewart can never stop promoting his runs if he wants to keep sales & interest going. Spyderco probably falls into this category as well.

Other companies such Al Mar and Randall knives continue to make existing designs because people still want them -and the founder/designer has passed away.

It takes the small shops or one-at-a-timers to take the risk of new & radical designs because they have a niche willing to try & buy.
 
Knives were already old when fred flinstone was using them. How many new designs can there be. You can't make a knife that is not a copy of something thats been made over the thousands of years of knife making.
 
Its probably sacrilege, but many people only own one sheath knife. Some don't even know they want one. The last time anyone checked, the number of people who hunt in the US was less than 4% of the population and steadily shrinking. Those are knife customers. We can assume the number of fishermen is also shrinking. Consider that until it was stolen both me and my Dad shared use of the same 40 year old Kabar. A good knife will probably last 60+ years or even more. I have a neighbor who uses his grandfather's old Marble as his hunting knife. Why would he need to buy a new knife? In the past 60 years literally millions of the beloved 6+" sheath knives have been made and sold. At least 90% of them are still perfectly functional and passed down from father to son. As civilization and urbanization occur the excuse to own a big knife decreases. In this environment many fine knife makers go bankrupt as it is often cooler to use grampa's old knife rather than buy a new one. In such an environment knife makers are forced to use gimmickry.
 
The aging population is another thing that is hurting the hunting. As folks get older they still fish for a while but the rigors of hunting are often to much. The Divorce rate is another thing that is killing the fishing, hunting and even camping. Many if not most one parent households are run by women. Many women do not tend to teach the kids to hunt and shoot. God bless those who do but they are kinda rare. Also most women are not buying knives for the kids.

I will always be grateful that I was raised in the country by folks who loved the outdoors and hunting.

The cost of hunting and posted land as well as loss of habitat are making hunting harder all the time.
 
Originality in design may be subjective. If I open a catalog, no matter the widget, and I find I'm bored by what's in there, I can;t remember ever lambasting the manufacturers.

If a person has some sweet ideas, some original concept designs, I'd recommend they submit them or maybe take a stab at manufacturing.
 
For what it's worth, the share of fishermen in Oregon and the Northwest, as well as some of the Gulf States is actually growing.

As for the boring knife companies you mentioned, I can only comment on Gerber, and then only with unexpert hypothesis. Gerber got bought by Fiskars, which as I understand it through hearsay is a fairly money hungry cut to the bare bones including the bathroom plumbing kind of company. I drive by the Gerber factory on I-5 quite often, and it's gone from being a fairly buzzing hub of activity to kind of a graveyard. Last time I drove by it looked like they rented out half the building to some tech company.

Also, don't forget that when companies are bought by bigger companies who are bought by even bigger companies, a perverse version of central planning ensues; as an example, don't think for a moment that the American car companies can't design and build the best cars in the world. The problem is the bean counters and often foolish and foolhardy exec's upstairs who first of all look for proven winners, and second don't trust the opinions of the unwashed masses working for them.

As for the fact that divorce may have a huge impact on the knife buying public, I think the previous poster had a great point. I have to mention though, that the fathers can always still take their children out into the woods on the weekends. They just often don't. One of the reasons for that of course is that not only do we have less and less public land at higher and higher daily access prices, but also that people need to work more just to stay afloat. 25 years ago a single income family did alright, these days most 2 income families are massively in debt.

So the only people buying knives in huge numbers are pimply antisocial mall ninja teenagers who don't understand nor have any need for a good well designed knife. And for that demographic, the cheaper the better. Ergo cheap Chinese garbage with goofy serrations and ominous bloody sounding names.
 
Strange interpretation of the term "originality".

Time moves on. Obviously, the buying public decided the older designs were "old" and stopped buying sufficient numbers to justify manufacture.

Also, it is not like most knives are worn out. I've handled knives from the '40's and '50's, if not earlier, that were entirely serviceable - some looked virtually new.

Don't like the newer knives, don't buy them. Maybe in a decade or so, someone will be wishing for them, too.
 
Well, like another already said Gerber was bought out and it appears the owning company is content to bleed it dry and then maybe sell it off...the magic of accounting and tax code at work.

Al Mar, I believe the man behind the name passed on; so apparently that company is just content to ride the success of his winning designs. The designs seem to fetch a high premium for what you get IMO.
 
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