Knife confessions

Even though I love the atmosphere and they are very helpful

going to Country Knives in Lancaster, PA to buy knives.

Their prices are astronomical! 30% above MSRP, all because the owner says that he can charge those prices because people handle his knives before purchasing!
 
The Fourth one is the one that Screws Me Up.Not having Anything new for awhile,and Buying a knife on impulse for that reason alone.That's one of the good things about my Girlfriend-She asks me if I Really Want It,or if I'm just buying it to get a "New" knife.I'm glad you brought up number 5 too,Gunshows are Not the best places to shop for Quality Custom knives.There's a few exceptions to that rule though.There a Gunshow in San Diego that Barry Dawson attends regularly.Great thread 2knife. :cool:
 
#5 can be ok if the knifemaker is either very well known, or he or she is a local maker that is willing to communicate.

How about makers that can't give a good deadline for completion of an order? That is shady.
 
#5 can bring up a geat deal now and then down here. Last one I saw was 6 months ago. Wally Hayes damascus Katana for 1600.00. I should have jumped all over it, but that is a big jump from what I collect and I have a bunch of stuff coming due at Blade that I need to be ready for.
 
On the flip side, I have found knifemakers and knife dealer in custom knives to be a much higher class of people. With the rare exception, most are friendly, trustworthy, and out to satisfy customers. At least that's how I see it.
David
 
2knife,
please help the rest of us out, and let us know who took your friend for a ride.
You don't owe that guy any favors, and you'd really be helping us out.
thank you.
 
I did a bunch of gun shows back in the day. I also picked up some great stuff. It depends on the where. I have previously posted about the Puyallup gun show, it is still good, they have their own knife show now.

Del Mar is another story, but Barry Dawson does show up every few months. To me, his knives are a must have. Reasonably priced, excellent designs, great users.

Things I have learned through experience:

1. It is easy to get caught up in a "buying frenzy". I did it at the Guild Show a few years ago. I was told by a "dealer" that the knife I was interested in was made by Don Fogg, and his cost was $1800. The truth was, Don Fogg made the blade, but Randall Gilbreath made the handle, the cost was $900. He tried to screw me, but I caught him. He was a POS. Buyer Beware!
People are currently buying Ken Onion knives on the aftermarket for 3x what they cost. If you don't care what you pay for one, you can get it. Great knives, but, don't believe the hype! If you want it that bad, know that there may be a limit to how much you can increase on your investment, if you fall in love with something else, and need to turn it.

2. Never, ever pay the full cost of a knife until it is done. If you pay the maker the whole cost of the knife up front, there is no incentive to finish it.

3. Sometimes you get lucky, but if the price of the knife seems too good to be true, it probably is.

4. It is way more fun to pick up a knife that you ordered at a show than it is to fight with everyone trying to get what is available, IMHO. I am picking up at least 5 knives at Blade, and I am really looking forward to it. That way, I know what I am looking at cost-wise, and don't have to worry about overspending, which I will probably still do, but not as bad. :D

5. Asking about a maker is a good idea on the BladeForums, if that maker is an unknown quantity to you. Ever since I started doing that, I have been very pleasantly surprised by the quality of the knives, and the overall purchasing experience. It has also increased the dialogue that I have had with people on the Forums. In other words, it has given me a reason to ask a possibly interesting and educational question, benefitting myself, and everyone else here at the same time.

Good thread.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
very unfortunate!!! I try to treat every customer I have like he or she is getting the most inportant knife I have ever made. In fact that is true during the very time I am making there knife!

Sorry to hear your friend had a bad experience! Tell him I said we can talk anytime!!!!!
 
It´s too bad such things happen, but we can not avoid it - even though knife people as a whole are very honest and generous, there are aways those only interested in profiting, no matter at what cost (and usually with all osrts of excuses). These usually can do great damage to the whole community by driving away people that feel every maker/delaer will fool them as soon as he has an opportunity.
The only thing we can do about is to act as straight and honestly as we can and aways show good will. Nobody is perfect and eventually we can get an unhappy customer, but that is not reason for us not to strive to do our best and fix the situation.
 
2knife said:
Thinking about some of the characters I've dealt with, there was one man who I remember in particular. Several years ago I made the mistake of buying one of his antique knives. When I found that no one would value that knife at anything close to his selling price I decided the only possibly way for me to get rid of it (now that I realized I was taken) was to ask him for a refund or exchange. He would only pay less than half in trade, as I remember. Also, he wanted a large margin of cash for anything he would offer, cheaper knives included. I became angry and told him I'd never buy another knife from him. When I passed by his table at another show I heard him telling racist jokes and laughing, at that point I knew all of my feelings for him were right on.

Another story.. One of the first guys I bought a knife from at a gun show was an older man around 75-80. At the time I didn't know much about knives but had an interest in old Remington pocket knives. Since he seemed "grandfatherly" and old enough to know his knives, I didn't question much what he was selling. I bought one of his knives and after showing around found that it was a counterfeit. Upon hearing this, he would offer no apology, no nothing. So, I did as much as I could, giving him a piece of my mind, doing everything but spitting on his shoe. Later, he would only look away when I passed his table. Ultimately, it's my fault for not knowing any better, but deceiving characters like this deserve no respect.

Well, those are just two of my gun show experiences from years' past. Much of my interest in old knives has passed and I don't deal with the variety of people anymore. Not to say there are not people I will cross like that again, but (for me) I have found the areas to stay away from. Gun shows is a biggie... unless it's guns.
David
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In your first story in the above post, you paid too much, which was your own fault. This dealer did nothing wrong either than take advantage of you, which is still pretty bad, but common in todays business world. I see no reason why he should have taken the knife back etc. He sounds like a real POS, but theres nothing you can do about that except learn from your mistake. You can't tell who is a POS and who isn't right away, but you can learn knife prices. Not to say I am even an expert on current knife prices, but learn those prices as best you can.

In the second story, you were taken by someone pawning off a counterfeit item. You should have contacted the police, or at least contact the Better Business Bureau, and let them handle it. BTW, who said it was a counterfeit?
 
Buying knives at gun shows and similar, especially older knives- they are antiques, and the antique market is often riddled with shady characters.
As for knifemakers, I've never had a problem with any. Some are nicer to deal with than others, but I've never dealt with anyone specifically rude. Some artists just want to do things their way, and that is their right- and 99% of the time they are doing you a favor!
But you're right, the too good to be true, vague claims, pay up front attitudes should set your spider-sense tingling.
The only time I got that vibe, I purchased the knife from a reputable dealer instead.
 
I have an unconditional return policy. I would never want anyone to have one of my knives unless they are absolutely happy with it.

I took orders for a bit and absolutely hated it. I do it best when I do it the way I want. If someone else likes it too, then we are all happy. My exception to that rule is folks that have bought a number of knives from me - they obviously like my style and they order something I would have made for myself anyway. It has also eliminated the issue of deposits, deadlines, etc.

I really hated someone ordering a knife, emailing me 30 times asking if it was ready, requesting changes repeatedly after I had already crossed the point of no return (e.g., handle change), then selling it less than a week after receiving it. That doesn't happen anymore.
 
I completely agree with Bob.

My policy has always been that people shouldn't pay for something they're not happy with. I don't accept any money until the customer has closely looked over the knife for a few days, when they're happy with it they can send payment.

I did have a knife returned, I don't have very thick skin when it comes to my knives, but I am much happier knowing that I do not have a dissatisfied customer.

I have completely stopped taking orders, and I don't think I ever will again (I'm not too crazy about selling anymore). I now understand why there are delays when ordering a custom knife. I am way behind on the few orders I have, the obligations I have to school outweigh knife making (I would very much like to have more time to devote to knives...but it isn't going to be this semester, or probably next). The customers have been incredibly gracious and patient waiting for their knives. I shouldn't write this :), but I will always take orders from friends, and I do consider many of my customers friends.

In many ways (other than making three dollars an hour ;)) the most enjoyable aspect of knife making is interacting with the customers. Unfortunately, I have never met any of them in person, but I've had many very enjoyable phone conversations with very unique people, people who I would enjoy speaking with regardless of a knife order.

I'm very sorry you're having a difficult time, but please do not take the maker in question as a representative for the whole; there are no more than a handful of makers who are in the business solely for turning a profit, but , in my estimation, knife makers are inherently good people, albeit eccentric and sometimes perverted :).

I whole-heartedly mean that the people I have interacted with in the knife community have been kind, friendly, affable, generous, and most interesting.

Well, that's my defense to knife makers (I did not take your post to be disparaging in any way :)).

Matt
 
How about makers that can't give a good deadline for completion of an order? That is shady.
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This is an individual thing, too. When someone orders something from me I am honest and I give a projected date, but since I make knives part-time, and my patients take precedence, I've had a few instances where it gets delayed. But, we're talking a few days to a couple weeks, not months, years, decades! I think you can generally get a pretty good idea of how someone is running their operation, though, just by their communication. I don't really understand the amount of ripping people off that goes on with knives, but it's probably no different other places. It's too bad.
 
LongRifle said:
....I don't accept any money until the customer has closely looked over the knife for a few days, when they're happy with it they can send payment....
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Wow, that's a very generous policy!

In my short time as a bona fide collector, my OFFER to make a deposit on a custom knife order has usually been refused (but not always), I have been ASKED to make a deposit, I have been asked to send payment in full BEFORE the finished knife will be shipped to me, and I have been asked to send payment at the same time that a trusting maker has notified me he's shipping the knife.

I HAVE received knives on consignment from certain DEALERS with whom I have established a relationship.

However, I have NEVER been shipped a custom order by a maker and been given the opportunity to examine the knife BEFORE sending payment.

I could be wrong, but I think that's a pretty nice (and rare) approach to customer service. Good for you. :cool:
 
I could be wrong, but I think that's a pretty nice (and rare) approach to customer service. Good for you
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I've done the same (ship a knife, let the person look over it and then they pay or send the knife back), and it's always worked out well. Eventually, though, it will come back to bite you in the butt and then leave you with a bitter experience. That happens to me with patients all the time "Gee, Doc, I left my wallet at home. Can I pay you later?" and then I give my time and care and they rip me off. That happens a couple times and it makes you crazy, so I've given up doing that with knife customers, too. If someone was unhappy with one of my knives when they see it, though, I'd gladly refund their money, no questions asked.

I think that would be much harder to do, though, on truly custom knives (i.e. you make something unique and special for that person based on their specs, etc) because as a maker, depending on the knife, you may have trouble reselling it, or there may be lots of $$$ tied up in the materials that would be hard to recoup (not to mention the time aspect). It's kind of like art at that point. I doubt people commission a big piece, then when they see it go "Nah, I guess I'm not interested anymore. Can I have my money back?" Ouch!
 
Chiro75 said:
....would be much harder to do, though, on truly custom knives (i.e. you make something unique and special for that person based on their specs, etc)....
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All the knives I was referring to were 'regular' models from each knifemaker - no special requests from me at all. (So I guess I should have used the term 'hand-made' instead of 'custom'. )

That's why your policy surprised me.

Looking forward to seeing your website. :)
 
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