knife cultures

O

old otter

Joined
Sep 1, 1999
Messages
1
I am a little new at posting topics so please bear with me.

I read somewhere on the Net about the Sihks in California that require a knife as part of
male dress and the problems that it has caused.

Growing up in the South almost every man over
8 carried some form of pocket knife, and truckers today seem to all carry a folder on their belt.

Are there other cultures or groups that we know of (other than we Blade forum types) where the carrying of a knife is considered
a nceceesity.
 
On the legal troubles of the Sikhs in connection with their knives, here's a link to an Ohio appellate cast (at a Sikh Youth Federation web site): http://syf.jaj.com/verdict.htm

Here's a link to the ACLU's page on the settlement of that Northern California school district case: http://www.aclu.org/news/n061297b.html

Note that it doesn't give the kids the right to carry a knife that can actually cut anything.

Further searching finds that the British army will now allow Sikh soldiers to carry miniature Kirpans: http://syf.jaj.com/ukarmy.htm

And here is a link to a "Q&A" page on the Sikh religion, where there is an explanation of the meaning of the Kirpan/Sword: http://www.sikhmedia.org/resources/mansukhani/mansukh-1.html

On the more general question, I wonder why any culture among our claw-challenged species would not include the daily carry of some sort of knife.


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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001
 
My home town of Eureka California was a logging and commercial fishing town back in the day. A Buck 110 in a belt pouch was almost as ubiquitous as bell bottom Levis back in the '70s.

It's not like that any more though. Full of yuppie gift boutique proprieters wearing dockers and topsiders. But, back up in the hills, you can still find smoked-out ganja farmers trying to scratch out subsistence on a placer claim. They eat breakfast with there knives, clean their teeth with their knives, skin dinner with their knives, and pop the top off the home brew with their knives. Yes, nothern California hillbilly society is alive and well near the end of the second millenium.
 
Largely, it's the farming cultures of the world that carry knives particularly chopping tools. Also the traveling nomadic peoples carry knives too.

Specifics would be the Sikhs again, the Ghurkas of Nepal, the farming peoples of Asia, Africa, South America, North America etc.
 
I understand that the Finns are a traditional knife-carrying people, altho that may have begun to change. I used to know some Finnish wooden boat builders in the Vancouver, BC area who used knives to scribe cutting lines (their boats fit together like tight jigsaw puzzles and were prized for their seaworthiness and workmanship). Likewise, Norway; a great uncle from there carried a puukko in a carved ivory sheath in his pocket. What's the state of carry in Sweden these days...
 
The machete is the single most important knife in the world outside of the kitchen. It is the backbone of all agricultural people`in the developing world. Recently in Africa, particularly Rwanda and Sierra Leone, the machete has been the tool of choice for massacres and atrocities. Although I understand peace keeping fdorces confiscating machetes in conflict areas, I often worry about these peoples ability to feed themselves once their tools are gone because I seriously doubt if the soldiers are really taking the machetes used in murders. Those folks are long gone. I once spent time in Sudan and I can say that traditionally Northern Sudanese Arabs carried straight daggers (sikiin) and curved daggers (khanjar) under their sleeves. The current government has cracked down on this however. Another group of people in Eastern Sudan, the Hadendowa, carry full size (36in) swords. Most of these people are not in the big cities so the police ignore them. I remember seeing a Hadendowa man ride the train with his sword and no one cared. Imagine that in America!
 
The machete is the single most important knife in the world outside of the kitchen. It is the backbone of all agricultural people`in the developing world. Recently in Africa, particularly Rwanda and Sierra Leone, the machete has been the tool of choice for massacres and atrocities. Although I understand peace keeping fdorces confiscating machetes in conflict areas, I often worry about these peoples ability to feed themselves once their tools are gone because I seriously doubt if the soldiers are really taking the machetes used in murders. Those folks are long gone. I once spent time in Sudan and I can say that traditionally Northern Sudanese Arabs carried straight daggers (sikiin) and curved daggers (khanjar) under their sleeves. The current government has cracked down on this however. Another group of people in Eastern Sudan, the Hadendowa, carry full size (36in) swords. Most of these people are not in the big cities so the police ignore them. I remember seeing a Hadendowa man ride the train with his sword and no one cared. Imagine that in America!
 
As far as cultures are concerned, there are many. If you will note my signature below, Jesus Himself commanded those who believed on Him for salvation to carry the side arm of the day. It was basically a short sword. Without going into all of the details, blades and nowadays, firearms (modern equivalent to sword used for self defense), where always part of the Christians mandate. Unfortunately, today few ministers know the Bible well enough to teach this. I know that this will rub someone the wrong way, (but I'm not going to lie just to appease someone), but much of early American culture was founded on Biblical principles found in both Old and New Testaments. I realize that some of the early Christians in America acted very Un-Christ like. But as far as those who followed the Scriptures as they should have, had no problem with carry of various firearms and bladed tools for weaponry and daily tasks. Hey, Jesus Christ didn't tell us to sell something of importance to purchase something of greater importance for nothing.
smile.gif
Another part of American culture is the respect for life, liberty, and proper use of knives. Which is Biblical.

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"But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip; and he that hath no sword let him sell his garment and buy one." --Jesus Christ (Luke 22:36) See John 3:15- 18


 
I think I recall from an article in Military History that the Hadendowa of the Sudan were the tribe of formidable warriors who inspired the Rudyard Kipling to write:

"'Ere's to you, Fuzzy Wuzzy, in your 'ome in the Sudan,
You're a poor benighted heathen, but a first-class fightin' man!"

A sword is not, of course, a knife, and sometimes it is a metaphor for all weapons of war. This is probably not the proper forum to discuss the merits of one or several major religions' (or factions thereof) teachings on when it is proper for members in good standing to resort to deadly force. If it was, I could quote a passage from Talmud that doesn't discuss specific edged weapons, but does authorize a preemptive strike in self-defense, and could probably find, with a bit of a search, that passage from Hindu literature where Krishna helps a warrior who is having his doubts about violence resolve his doubts and charge into an epic battle.

From the machete to the kukri, the big chopping knife of tropical agriculture is the peasant's life-sustaining tool and his weapon of choice. The classic choice - life or death, blessing or curse.

Scandinavian and Finnish knife culture is primarily about use as a tool. For fighting, there were swords and axes and spears and such. Custom and superstition that evolved around the work knife included, among other things:

- sticking a knife into the wall at the head of one's bed at night to ward off nightmares,

- sticking the knife into the dirt at one end of a field, before plowing, to induce fertility (subtle symbolism!), and

- and a young single woman wearing an empty sheath, so that a young single man could place his knife in it, to open negotiations leading to marriage (more subtle symbolism!).


------------------
- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001
 
Alberta Ed
You are right abot Finns. We were knife (puukko) people. Anyhow our edged weapon law has changed a lot in last (10-20??) years. In public places and in entertainment it is not allowed to carry an edged weapon unless you need it because of your work. In law a common edged weapon is defined as a puukko or any implement that can be used to hurt people. Baseball bat can be equated to edged weapon... A police can take your edged weapon away and you must collect it later form police station.
In that law there are also the dangerous edged weapons that are intended to hurt people. They are illegal anyplace.

In Lapland (Northern Finland) many men still carry a puukko in public places and it is considered normal. LEOs normally consider all nonconcealed knifes as tools. Older men are more likely to carry puukkos than the younger ones.

Here in urban Southern Finland public carry would raise eyebrows (if not wearing work overall). Multitools and keyring knifes are normally overlooked but in someplaces (amusement park and parliament house are the only that I can remember) they are collected to storage.

Puukko is still part of our national costume and is considered as mans jewellery etc. National costume is considered equal to dress coat in feast days - so people can go celebration of independence in presidential resicence wearing a puukko. The puukko has to be traditional design from the same area that yor costume comes from.

Urbanization has changed too much!
frown.gif


There are reason for laws as a wery young saying (by me
smile.gif
) states:

Too many Finns with puukkos in small area - too many holes in Finns.
wink.gif


Tommi member of a former knife nation

[This message has been edited by Tommi (edited 12 October 1999).]
 
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