Knife design...stepping on toes

kvehikite

kvehikite

Joined
Jan 8, 2015
Messages
202
I'm pretty knew to knife making. I've made a couple dozen knives so far and I'm having fun and learning a lot. One question that has been nagging me for a while concerns knife design. Now, I don't pretend to think that I am able to re-invent the wheel, but I do try to bring my own flavor and style to the knives I make. My question is this...is there any "rule" about using the ideas, shapes, designs, etc. of established knife makers/bladesmiths? Unless trademarked/patended, is everything open for use?

Everytime I think that I have designed something a little different, I find that it has already been done. I want to pursue those things that I like, but I also don't to step on anyones toes or even cause some kind of legal issues.
 
Just don't COPY someone's work unless you get permission. If you are going pretty much going your own way, you should be fine.

Frank
 
I too am a youngster in the knife making world. I think a to learn we should start with simple designs and work on building skills. As such, I find that a lot of my designs have classic lines that have already been done elsewhere by others. In many different ways.
I liken it to music. There are only so many notes and every one of them has been played. That does not mean I can't write my own song.
Many people are told they look like someone famous. They can't help it.
Start with a blank piece of paper and make something that feels just right. Then turn it into your own song. If it looks like a famous person... wow... metaphor overload. You see where I'm going with this. Do what YOU do.
 
I guess that it is fairly obvious that millions of knives have been made for over 4 thousand years and most them are kind of "pointy" at the front and 'sharpish" on the bottom and many have a handle about as long as the width of a man's palm. I don't care if an angel appears and hands you a drawing of a lovely knife; it has probably been made before. The law of large numbers alone should indicate this.

I draw many of my knives from the blade back with a pencil and a French curve but I do not kid myself that any of my drawings are ground breaking in their design. I don't even try to conceal the fact that I am influenced by famous makers like Loveless when I sketch a "new" knife. I make a knife similar to the famous Loveless drop point hunter with the touches that I like and I describe the knives as "Loveless inspired" or Loveless "style". I think that is fair but I would not trace another makers knife and call it my own. Other than "fantasy" knives there are very few truly original shapes being made in my opinion. Don't sweat it. Just make knives with smooth lines and high function and utilty and you will probably make knives that look a lot like someone's knife that has been made before. No foul in my book. Larry
 
It may not be now or even soon but if you are a good maker, you will develop your own style. It's part of what makes a great knifemaker.
Just look at a Nick Wheeler bowie, or one of Storm Crow's swords/choppers, or a Gavkoo flipper etc.The list goes on, but the point is you can just tell who made it by looking at it.
 
My opinion is that it has all been done before and you can still come up with original designs. Every part of your knife will look like something that has been done before; there just is not much chance of coming up with something completely new. The originality of your design will be in how you combine lines, shapes, materials and details. I look at several hundred knives a week but, when I sit down to design a knife I do not want any knife images around me. This is how I avoid copying other knives and can honestly say the design is my own.

Bob
 
When I first wanted to try a lockback, the only step by step I could find was by one of the top southern ABS smiths. Thinking it would be simpler to just copy his design for my first one, I wrote to him to ask if he was ok with that, and got an extremely helpful and gracious reply, which led to a helpful email exchange.
He didn't care a bit, and I let him know that I'd be putting my own name on it (not his!! :) ) and really....there's not a chance in you know where that anyone would mistake my work for his!
After that it was all about my own designs, but it was really helpful to do that first one from a pattern.
 
You can make any design you want.

When it comes to selling put your own spin on your work and you will be fine.

Trying to copy anothers work to reproduce it and go head to head in sales?... Don't do that.

Most of us are creative enough our work may be similar but different enough not to be a copy.
 
I had the same question.. I want to start on a knife that honestly is "inspired" by a knife I bought a year ago from the maker. The one I would make would be pretty similar in the shape of the profile. BUT that's where it ends. The size will be different, materials (blade and handle) will be different, it will be convex rather than FFG, and the ricasso will be quite different. Would that be construed as "copying"? I hope not - someone please give me your thoughts.
 
kvehikite said:
I'm pretty knew to knife making. I've made a couple dozen knives so far and I'm having fun and learning a lot. One question that has been nagging me for a while concerns knife design. Now, I don't pretend to think that I am able to re-invent the wheel, but I do try to bring my own flavor and style to the knives I make. My question is this...is there any "rule" about using the ideas, shapes, designs, etc. of established knife makers/bladesmiths? Unless trademarked/patended, is everything open for use?

Everytime I think that I have designed something a little different, I find that it has already been done. I want to pursue those things that I like, but I also don't to step on anyones toes or even cause some kind of legal issues.
Click to expand...

thank you for asking! this too has been weighing on my mind :-)

and all great responses
thank you
 
Copying would be laying out a ESEE Izula and cutting it out and shaping exactly to size or Copying something as recognizable as the "Spydie Hole"...there are certain visual references we have committed to memory that we associate with certain manufacturers and if you look at your design and its a "Dead Ringer" you might catch some flack....Artistic license gives you the ability to change these design ideas enough to become Your ideas....I like the idea of not having photos of other knives around to sway my conceptual designs.
 
Everybody draws from the well of inspiration. That's why we're all here isn't it? It gets our creative juice flowing and maybe we too will inspire a future maker. I saw a really cool knife design that was poorly executed in its build. So I copied it. Lo and behold I saw the original knife and maker while surfing the net. There was no credit given to the original designer. Imitation is the highest form of flattery.

Another thought......a lot of knives are oxymorons, original copies.
 
Unless you are making a direct copy of a specific model of patented and trademarked commercial knife, you are not stepping on toes....you are standing on shoulders.

When I was a lad there were no knifemaking books, no videos ( at all), no internet forums ( at all), and no other makers to ask. It has been estimated that there were less than 50 custom/handmade makers in the USA in the 1950's. We all copied what we saw in a magazine or catalog or at the hardware store ( where most folks bought a knife). I wish we had the shoulders to stand on that new fellows have today. There are literally thousands of great makers to inspire you, info sources, and places to find out about knifemaking.

I know of only two or three makers who get their feathers ruffled when someone makes a knife that looks like theirs. If you see a knife you really like, send the maker an email with what you liked about it and ask if they mind you making one that looks like it. More than likely they will email you a set of drawings and some tips on making it. Most are really helpful to new makers.
 
To say that I was not influenced by a certain knife maker would be a lie. I don't copy, and draw my own design even though it may look similar if it is going from my head to my hand to the paper it is my design. There will always be subtle design differences.
 
When I design a new knife, I sometimes start by tracing another knife from a photograph. Then I change the lines on the edge and the grind. Then the spine. By the time I change the lines on the handle I have a completely new knife.

Chris
 
This is great stuff. I would never lay down and trace a blade. I like to sit and draw my own stuff. I just have a lot of respect for those that have been an influences in my design process. I like the thought that Stacy shared...that we are standing on shoulders.
 
When I first started, it wouldn't have mattered how hard I tried to copy someone's design. It would not have had any resemblance by the time I was done. I think for a lot of makers, by the time they're good enough to copy someone's work, they've developed a style of their own.
 
What I have seen is that a post with a design that is drawn or CAD rendered will get answered with respect from all that answer with good advice on where to take the design and what corrections should be made to ensure the final working piece will be strong where it might be weak and where ergonomics can be improved...I rarely hear "That Looks Like _____" even though it may bear some resemblance...the point being most come here with their own ideas assembled from other designs.
 
What I've been trying to do is take knives I personally like and a feature of that knife I like and incorporate that into one of my own builds. For example, blade of a Southard, frame of Ferrum Forge, lock bar of a Hoback, Backspacer of a Gavko, etc... and try to combine those features I like about those knives into the creation of my knives. Am I successful at it??? Not quite but I think it's been a good starting place for me until my skills develop more. I've also noticed what I start with on my wooden template is not what I always end up with. Out of the 4 completed flippers I've done each one is a little bit different in size and shape. I always find something during the process of shaping the frame, grinding the blade, etc... to change up some along the way to completion. So far it's been fun, and great learning experience from knife to knife.
 
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