Knife engineering book Question

nicosteve

nicosteve

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Good day all,

I'm reading Dr. Larrin Thomas's "Knife Engineering V2" and I am finding some of this information to be a bit overwhelming. I was wondering if there are any sources/videos you all have to help dumb it down a bit for me? I'm just starting chapter 9 (corrosion) and I feel that I've missed a lot of information. Maybe I just need to write stuff down or re-read, but if anyone has links that may help, I would love to see them. Thanks for your time!
 
nicosteve said:
Good day all,

I'm reading Dr. Larrin Thomas's "Knife Engineering V2" and I am finding some of this information to be a bit overwhelming. I was wondering if there are any sources/videos you all have to help dumb it down a bit for me? I'm just starting chapter 9 (corrosion) and I feel that I've missed a lot of information. Maybe I just need to write stuff down or re-read, but if anyone has links that may help, I would love to see them. Thanks for your time!
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One of the great things about that book is that there's so much material in it that you're always going to learn more every time you read it.

I wouldn't sweat it personally. There's no test at the end after all! I'd just get as much out of it as you can, then go try to apply what you learned in the shop, and read it again down the road. That way the experience you gain in the shop will help you the next time you approach the book down the road.
 
Read what make sense or what you are interested in. I would bet 75% of the book owners never read much more than the HT data in the back.

Metallurgy makes peoples head hurt. It makes mine hurt sometimes to read Larrin's articles. Just trust that he knows what he is talking about and his advice on HT is well founded. Also, this info is not stuff Larrin cooks up bu=y himself. Many people do te testing and HT parameters for teh results posted.
 
I recieved a copy of this book for Christmas and have been studying as time allows. I have been making knives using 1095, heating to non-magnetic, and immediately quenching them into Parks 50. Table 21-2 on page 224 lists 1095 as a water quenching steel. Before reading this book, I was advised to quench in Parks 50; should I be quenching in water instead?
 
Fixedwing said:
I was advised to quench in Parks 50; should I be quenching in water instead?
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... only if you like music (hearing the dreaded "tink") and losing about a 1/3 of your blades to cracking. If you are using clay on the 1095(1070 or W2) expect a reverse sori with Parks50 versus water. If you don't clay your blades just keep with the parks50.
 
The book reminds me a lot of the metallurgical portions of the materials science textbooks I used in college. The only difference is that it’s geared towards knife steels. Part of the scientific method is publishing your results so they can be reviewed and retested by peers. That’s where the depth comes in. Most knife makers don’t necessarily need all of that detail but they do need to understand that any blade material they choose has limits. They also need to understand temperature, time at temperature and quenching methods among other things matter tremendously. There have been a lot of makers that claimed to have their own mystical heat treatments and other techniques over the years that imparted characteristics into steels which are physically impossible under scientific scrutiny.

I haven’t even read it cover to cover but I do use it frequently as a reference and have pages dog eared throughout.
 
Fixedwing said:
I recieved a copy of this book for Christmas and have been studying as time allows. I have been making knives using 1095, heating to non-magnetic, and immediately quenching them into Parks 50. Table 21-2 on page 224 lists 1095 as a water quenching steel. Before reading this book, I was advised to quench in Parks 50; should I be quenching in water instead?
Click to expand...
I’ve had some 1095 and W2 that I had difficulty hardening using Parks 50. The W2 seemed to be due to high oil temp. The 1095 just wouldn’t get there no matter what. It would skate a file at the edge but might only be 45 HRC elsewhere. I finally quenched half the 1095 blanks in water and half in brine. A couple of them didn’t survive the quench. The rest sure enough got hard. I’ve basically given up altogether on 1095 after that experience. It’s just more trouble than it’s worth. 80CrV2 is my carbon steel of choice now. It’s hard to screw it up. I still use W2 if and only if I’m trying to get a hamon.
 
Like someone else said, the more you read it the more you comprehend. That is true in my case, now it’s like finding valuable little nuggets when I finally have that moment of realization regarding a point I had been stuck on.
 
ScarFoot said:
I’ve had some 1095 and W2 that I had difficulty hardening using Parks 50. The W2 seemed to be due to high oil temp. The 1095 just wouldn’t get there no matter what. It would skate a file at the edge but might only be 45 HRC elsewhere. I finally quenched half the 1095 blanks in water and half in brine. A couple of them didn’t survive the quench. The rest sure enough got hard. I’ve basically given up altogether on 1095 after that experience. It’s just more trouble than it’s worth. 80CrV2 is my carbon steel of choice now. It’s hard to screw it up. I still use W2 if and only if I’m trying to get a hamon.
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Thanks, once my 1095 is gone I will make the switch to 80CrV2 as well... :cool:
 
Fixedwing said:
Thanks, once my 1095 is gone I will make the switch to 80CrV2 as well... :cool:
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80CrV2 was recommended to me not long after I started making knives and I’ve stuck with it. It heat treats consistently and it’s pretty easy to get a good finish on it. It’s also fairly cost effective. I believe 1084 is also fairly forgiving from what I remember but I’ve only used it once. I’m sure some of the other makers on here will have suggestions as well.
 
Thanks guys, I appreciate the feedback. I was going to delete this post because I found Larrins YouTube channel and hes really good at explaining things there. But after reading your comments, I think it will be good for other beginners, like me, to see this post. You all are a good group of people.
 
nicosteve said:
Thanks guys, I appreciate the feedback. I was going to delete this post because I found Larrins YouTube channel and hes really good at explaining things there. But after reading your comments, I think it will be good for other beginners, like me, to see this post. You all are a good group of people.
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Do you make knives?

Hoss
 
I'll add my agreement to the above. I've had the first edition since it came out and when I first read it, the phase diagrams made my head swim, and they continued to for years. Just this past year I noticed I'm starting to be able to picture and understand what's going on in those diagrams. It didn't take any extra effort, just repetition, repetition, repetition.
 
I try to understand more each time I read it. Sometimes it takes a few times to read through it and digest it because it's a technical type book. As I learn more, do more heat treating and testing, it starts to make more sense! Sometimes things 'click' quickly, other topics, not so much! Sometimes the pictures really help, but some of the TTT phase diagrams just confuse me. I have to go back and look at the previous info to figure out whats labeled what on the charts and how it translates to real world/real language.
 
nicosteve said:
Good day all,

I'm reading Dr. Larrin Thomas's "Knife Engineering V2" and I am finding some of this information to be a bit overwhelming. I was wondering if there are any sources/videos you all have to help dumb it down a bit for me? I'm just starting chapter 9 (corrosion) and I feel that I've missed a lot of information. Maybe I just need to write stuff down or re-read, but if anyone has links that may help, I would love to see them. Thanks for your time!
Click to expand...
Are you saying it was chapter 9 that was confusing? Or chapters 1-8?
 
I find that just about any genre of book or paper that is densley packed with information leaves one feeling that way.
I feel the same way about Larrin's book that I do after reading a CS Lewis essay. Sometimes I have to read the same sentence or paragraph a few times to absorb it and if I read it to quickly my eyes start to cross. LOL
Personally, that's not a knock on your writing Larrin, I think it is very good. It's just technical and technical writing or research, particularly for those who don't read it everyday, is just harder to absorb. I know when I went back to do my master's degree it took some time to get my brain in gear and by the time I was done I could read a research paper much faster than when I started. My training isn't in metallurgy but I think the book is well presented it just requires me to read slower and sometimes do some rabbit trail research to make sure I understand an underlying concept.
 
Larrin said:
Are you saying it was chapter 9 that was confusing? Or chapters 1-8?
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Chapters 1-8. But honestly, its probably due to the fact that I have not had any formal education in about 10 years, and I have a hard time staying focused on anything. I have re-read chapters 1 and 2 and they are making more sense the second time around. Also, your youtube videos have helped a ton. I greatly appreciate all of the knowledge that you share.
 
TLR said:
I find that just about any genre of book or paper that is densley packed with information leaves one feeling that way.
I feel the same way about Larrin's book that I do after reading a CS Lewis essay. Sometimes I have to read the same sentence or paragraph a few times to absorb it and if I read it to quickly my eyes start to cross. LOL
Personally, that's not a knock on your writing Larrin, I think it is very good. It's just technical and technical writing or research, particularly for those who don't read it everyday, is just harder to absorb. I know when I went back to do my master's degree it took some time to get my brain in gear and by the time I was done I could read a research paper much faster than when I started. My training isn't in metallurgy but I think the book is well presented it just requires me to read slower and sometimes do some rabbit trail research to make sure I understand an underlying concept.
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Very well put. I agree, the language is a little bit above my every day level, so trying to read at a higher degree can be difficult. Still, great information nonetheless.
 
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