Recommendation? Knife In The Road

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w0den

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Nov 26, 2019
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Hi, long time lurker, looking for some advice. I have come to a fork, um knife, in the road. I have been sharpening my kitchen knives on an Edge Pro Apex for many years. I have a set of global knives, two JCK original CarboNexts (240 Gyuto, 125 petty), and a recently acquired
Daovua Leaf spring small cleaver.

I sharpen fairly infrequently. I have original stones (120, 220, 600, 1000), an Atoma 140, and a few other accessories I have acquired over the years. I also just bought the .25 u diamond spray, denim strop and base plate from CKTG.

So, here is where I have arrived. I do a pretty good job on the setup I have, but I am looking to change it up, and maybe take advantage of Black Friday. I am thinking of going in two radically different directions:

1) Buy some bench stones. Possibly a starter set of shapton glass or chosera stones, or something cheaper to start. Who doesn't like the idea of being a zen knife sharpening master? Of course I am concerned about holding angles and all that, but I am sure with practice I will perceiver.

2) Something powered. I love power tools and I would love to get my knives sharpened fast and probably maintain them more often)! I am thinking either something with a belt, like the WorkSharp Ken Onion with the blade grinding attachment (I am intrigued by the convex edges, but I am not sure how they do on kitchen knives), or a Tormek t-4 (or more likely a clone like the Grizzly, unless they are crap). I am good with tools, and will start with cheap knives before I try my good knives.

So... Has anyone made the transition from an Edge Pro to any of these radically different options? I know there are a lot of strong opinions, but what does the science say, if anything? My primary interest is in kitchen knives, but I do need flexibility.


Thanks for your time!
w0den
 
People have made the jump and say the guided system made them understand/see the angles better.
Of course if you go to CKTG's forums, they will mostly tell you to go with bench stones.
A guided system should be more accurate on angles, at least until you get to extremes - big or small knives, odd curves, the belly, the tip. Bench stones give you flexibility.
Really when freehand sharpening it isn't about holding a certain number angle if you have a good bevel. It's about feeling for the angle that's there and following it. For the most part, but we're not going into a dissertation about the whole of sharpening here.
Given the knives you have, a set of Shaptons (either) or Chosera is more than enough.
 
Ourorboros said:
Given the knives you have, a set of Shaptons (either) or Chosera is more than enough.
Click to expand...

Thanks, any recommendations on a progression/starter kits to choose? There are so many options and opinions!

And about the power options I mentioned, any thoughts out there?

-w0den
 
If the system you are currently using works, why change? I've been hand sharpening for about 50+ years and never needed/thought about a guided or power system.
Rich
 
Rich S said:
If the system you are currently using works, why change? I've been hand sharpening for about 50+ years and never needed/thought about a guided or power system.
Rich
Click to expand...
I am using the guided Edge Pro, and it is really slow, and not super enjoyable to use. I can get faster cutting stones, but at that point, I feel I should find something I enjoy more, or is fast enough that it doesn’t matter.
-w0den
 
w0den said:
1) Buy some bench stones. . . . Who doesn't like the idea of being a zen knife sharpening master?
Click to expand...

Me.
I know a good thing when I find it (the Edge Pro).
Unicorns are a pretty idea and all but . . .
Lets just say that if hand machining was so much fun and such a superior idea your engine machinist would be doing his / her work that way.
Having worked in an engine machine shop I can assure you that a file and a hand held polishing stone is not the preferred method to do a high level of precise work. Don't think producing a microscopic triangular edge to with in microns of tolerance and fractions of a degree in angle is not high level metal machining.

2) Something powered. I love power tools
Click to expand...

Buy a snow blower and maybe a nice new shop vacuum.
For the vac I can recommend the Fein brand.

Power tool :confused: :confused: for sharpening o_O o_O ?
How much material are you planning to take off ?
Well at least the knife vendors will love you. :p

PS: while using the Edge Pro you can always make motor noises with your mouth.
A couple of times a year I make The Chef (my significant other) first make a four stroke sound : Put, put, put vrooooooommmmm
then
a two stroke sound : Whinnn dinnn dinnnnn din WEEEEEENNNN DIN DIN DINNNN.

She just hates it ! ! !
She looks at me like she just stepped in :poop:
Good for 'er though. I think. :thumbsup:
:)
 
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w0den said:
I feel I should find something I enjoy more,
Click to expand...
Golf ?
sure mail off all those mean old knives to Josh or one of the other Pros here and head out to the Club.
I suppose you could belt grind the main sharpening bevel and micro bevel on a fine bench stone and call it done.
Makes me yawn thinking about it.
In my view an edge that makes me smile (or shiver with fear) is worth a little time. But I enjoy the process . . . and when I think of whacking away at a little ball with a F_____ up stick until I feel like I'm having a stroke . . . hey is that why they call it a stroke ?
(I'm plagiarizing from Robin Williams; love ya man RIP)
 
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Nothing at all wrong with wanting and desiring to free hand sharpen. I enjoy it very much, even when I don't get it right. It's a challenge and fun and rewarding.
 
Wowbagger said:
d when I think of whacking away at a little ball with a F_____ up stick until I feel like I'm having a stroke . . . hey is that why they call it a stroke ?
Click to expand...

Always ok to quote the master!
I already have a snow blower and a shop vac, neither can put a convex edge on my kitchen knives. While I understand that sharpening is a precision skill, it does not mean that power and care can’t get similar results... of course with great power comes great responsibility.

I guess the question is, has anyone moved from free hand/edge pro to something with power and been happy with the results? I don’t wand tradition and FUD to get in the way.

-w0den
 
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What kind of knife steels do you have,the reason I ask is because if you have PM steels like S30v M390 M4 S90v S110v I wouldn't buy shapton glass stones they are very slow cutting stones.

If your not sure about spending a lot of money on sharpening stones and doing free hand why not but a few cheap bench stones to practice first.
 
w0den said:
Thanks, any recommendations on a progression/starter kits to choose? There are so many options and opinions!
-w0den
Click to expand...
I've never tried powered systems.
With Shapton Pros, a typical progression is 320-1K-5K. Often chosen because it's pretty effective for the cost.
Really it's coarse (<=500), mid grit (800-2000) and polishing (>3000). That's on the JIS scale (waterstones). There are a lot of effective ways to make a working combination there.
Chosera gets pretty pricey, you want some commitment there.
After you get started, you figure out what your tastes are.
 
wade7575 said:
What kind of knife steels do you have,the reason I ask is because if you have PM steels like S30v M390 M4 S90v S110v I wouldn't buy shapton glass stones they are very slow cutting stones.

If your not sure about spending a lot of money on sharpening stones and doing free hand why not but a few cheap bench stones to practice first.
Click to expand...

Not sure what the Globals are, my JCK CarboNexts might be D2 (at least that is the speculation).
What stones cut faster? I was under the impression that Shapton glass were fast.

mad for less expensive bench stones to try it out, what would you recommend? I would love to try something cheaper!
 
Try looking at ACE I have heard a lot of guys have picked up cheap bench stones from them I have only read that on the forum,if you look at the link this guy is a good guy and a supporter of this site I forget his user name but if you email him threw his website he will get back to you,the Artic Fox and Mutt stones are just 2 of his better selling stones.

http://www.baryonyxknife.com/nsearc...hsubmit=Search&vwcatalog=yhst-129988217023674

I was the same you were about Shapton Glass stones when I first got into sharpening and thought they were the holy grail of stones until I got them and then I can't say I hated them but they were a major let down,I have a 6K 8K and 16K Shapton Glass stone and they are good finishers but that's it.

With Shapton Glass they are very very hard stones and right there is the problem,if you want a fast cutting stone it's better to have a stones that is always releasing abrasive,the reason for wanting a stone that release's abrasive is because it's always revealing fresh sharp abrasive,at the same time you don't want a stone that breaks down to faster either.

With Shapton Glass they are also aluminum oxide witch means they won't be fast cutting stones but at the same time Chosera's are fast cutting stones in their lower grit's and they are aluminum oxide stones,keep in mind aluminum oxide stones suck for steels like S30v S35VN S90V S110V M4 M390 just to name a few but if you have average steels the Chosera's are a better choice for speed over the Shapton Glass stones.

If you look at the steels I mentioned above most of them have 4% of Vanadium in them and when you get past that it's get tough to sharpen those steels with anything other then Diamonds or CBN,if you look at Vanadium it's softer then Silicon Carbide but the problem is when the steel is made and from the melting process the Vanadium turns to Vanadium carbide witch is really bad news for average stones because only Diamonds or CBN are up to the task.

If you hear guys talking about carbide fallout they are talking about Vanadium carbide fallout and what happens if you use a Silicon Carbide stone to sharp a steel rich in Vanadium the though is that the Silicon Carbide stones sharpen away the softer material's surrounding the Vanadium Carbide until it falls out,the reason they say that is because yes you can grind the edge back but it won't have good edge retention.

Also if you want a really good finishing stone look at the Suehiro G8 8K stone it's Silicon Carbide and it's a great stone,also for a guided system and if you want the best CBN stones that cut S110v and Maxamet like it's nothing the ones in the link below are the best I have ever used by far and they costly but you can sharpen around 300 to 500 knifes before needing to refresh them,after I use the Metallic CBN stones I mainly use the Venev OCB stones or a Japanese water stone depending on what kind of an edge I want.

https://www.gritomatic.com/collecti...ools/products/metallic-cbn-stone-for-edge-pro
 
For D2, Daovua, Globals Aluminum Oxide if fine. You don't really have anything exotic or slow wearing in the list I saw.
Shapton Pros will give you more performance for the money than the Shapton Glass. And for the D2 there is no real reason to really polish it, a mid grit will do fine.
After many people choose to strop instead of using a finer stone (in general, not talking about D2). Really depends on what you like in an edge.
If you want to spend less, then an India Stone or equivalent will do fine. I do prefer something wider, like 2.75" to 3" for kitchen knives.
 
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