Knife Laws and the lack thereof..

Battle Creek Knives

Battle Creek Knives

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Feb 23, 2010
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I was just perusing the internet and though I'd read up about the state I reside in Knife laws.. I'm currently carrying a ESEE HEST which has a blade length of about 3 1/4".. I've called my local sheriff's office and talked to the sergeant he told me it has to be under 4" whether its fixed or a folder etc... Well oklahoma law doesn't state any size, period, when I lived in california same thing applied under 4", but yet the law doesn't show size, just states no switch blade or spring assisted, or daggers allowed.. I asked the sergeant about carrying a 'dagger' he said as long as its under 4"...

Is it merely up to the officers understanding of the law at hand.. to one its ok, but to the other.. JAIL>>

you can check for your own state here:
http://www.knife-expert.com/sta-law.htm#I-M

let me know how you read your law..and what you carry.. anyhow
 
TheLastDaze said:
I was just perusing the internet and though I'd read up about the state I reside in Knife laws.. I'm currently carrying a ESEE HEST which has a blade length of about 3 1/4".. I've called my local sheriff's office and talked to the sergeant he told me it has to be under 4" whether its fixed or a folder etc... Well oklahoma law doesn't state any size, period, when I lived in california same thing applied under 4", but yet the law doesn't show size, just states no switch blade or spring assisted, or daggers allowed.. I asked the sergeant about carrying a 'dagger' he said as long as its under 4"...

Is it merely up to the officers understanding of the law at hand.. to one its ok, but to the other.. JAIL>>

you can check for your own state here:
http://www.knife-expert.com/sta-law.htm#I-M

let me know how you read your law..and what you carry.. anyhow
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It's all pretty confusing stuff. Here in NJ, the knife laws are pretty relaxed. No switchblades, gravity knives (tbh a cop can probably make any knife a "gravity" knife), etc. aren't allowed, but length doesn't seem like a big deal. The only statement about length they have is saying that it is illegal to sell a knife to a minor that has a blade length over 5 inches.

Also, I usually carry a big folder and a smaller folder or slipjoint. Lately I've been carrying a BM 741 onslaught or Military or bm subrosa.
 
TheLastDaze said:
I was just perusing the internet and though I'd read up about the state I reside in Knife laws.. I'm currently carrying a ESEE HEST which has a blade length of about 3 1/4".. I've called my local sheriff's office and talked to the sergeant he told me it has to be under 4" whether its fixed or a folder etc... Well oklahoma law doesn't state any size, period, when I lived in california same thing applied under 4", but yet the law doesn't show size, just states no switch blade or spring assisted, or daggers allowed.. I asked the sergeant about carrying a 'dagger' he said as long as its under 4"...

Is it merely up to the officers understanding of the law at hand.. to one its ok, but to the other.. JAIL>>

you can check for your own state here:
http://www.knife-expert.com/sta-law.htm#I-M

let me know how you read your law..and what you carry.. anyhow
Click to expand...
Couldn't you technically press charges if a police officer sends you to jail, arrests you, or fines you for something that wasn't illegal?
 
yes, perhaps its a county thing.. problem is the next county is only 10 minutes away.. do we have to abide and know each county/citys laws...??? gets tricky..

Noctis, Technically I'd say yes, BUT most of us don't have the money to fight City Hall let alone the City.. Unfortunately money is the answer if you want to win a legal battle anymore.. he who has most, WINS !!

But I get your point, you bet I'd press charges especially if he kept my knife.. !!
 
The truth of the whole matter is that most LEO's have way better things to do than bust ur balls over a pocket clip or small fixed blade sheath as long as you are discreet and don't look shady.
 
KnifeKnut66 said:
The truth of the whole matter is that most LEO's have way better things to do than bust ur balls over a pocket clip or small fixed blade sheath as long as you are discreet and don't look shady.
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This is true, but there's also the 'day' that has been set aside for you...
 
Every LEO that I ask here in San Diego hasn't known the local knife laws though a few have been pretty close. I even pointed at the clip on my pocket when I asked 'em and none seemed to care.
 
Out here in Maryland something exactly to this point happen, but stay with me, this has a good ending.

We have no length limit on folders ("penknives") and this was upheld repeatedly in the state's highest court. But in Sorrell v McGuingan, a cop erroneously thought there was a length limit and arrested a man solely on the grounds of carrying an illegal weapon. The actual reason for the contact in the first place was mistaken identity (a witness at the scene told the officer he had the wrong man). It is not clear from any evidence if Officer McGuigan was genuinely ignorant of his own state law (and many are by my own surveying), was a bigot, or merely was being butthurt about grabbing the wrong man. Either way though, the SA (what we call the DA in these parts) threw the case out before trial, and Sorrell sued.

Here's the thing. You know how cops are often perceived as having favor with the judge and SA, often knowing each other on a first name basis? It goes out the window in this situation. This type of suit (a 42 U.S.C. § 1983 claim) is tried in Federal Court. Fed courts not only are unfamiliar to most state officers, they do not give officers special treatment either. They are like machines compared to a state court. Remember the guys from the Rodney King case? They walked in state court, but the fed court gave them 2.5 years in jail. And in the Sorrell case, it served it to McGuigan. He lost a substantial sum, and to my knowledge his badge too. Sorrell was not a rich man either, so this can't have been all that expensive to do.
 
Noctis, Technically I'd say yes, BUT most of us don't have the money to fight City Hall let alone the City.. Unfortunately money is the answer if you want to win a legal battle anymore.. he who has most, WINS !!
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so true its like an auction, if you have more money (or want to spen way more money than the other side does) then little things like this could be won, but youd be so rich you wouldnt care
 
Bobby Craig said:
Arkansas has repealed its knife laws yet its still illegal to carry it in the library according to the library lady. Act 83 or 87 which ever it is of 2007 says all knife laws have been repealed in Arkansas.

Now in reality that is different. I called the State Police and asked them if they were arresting people for carrying big knives and he said as long as you don’t look like a gang banger there is no problem. Then he said he knows all knife laws have been repealed but if they see someone who looks different then they will arrest them and let the courts figure it out.

Our knife laws were actually repelled so hunters could carry their knives in the woods with out getting busted buy a Barney Fife Game Warden. I have carried my sharpfinger with just a little over 3.5inch blade with no problems from the police and I have even walked right in front of them and stood besides them and nothing. Only librarians give me problems with it.

And yes you can sue a cop. You are allowed to sue him as an individual for violating your rights if he arrest you knowing you have don’t nothing illegal. Now, chances are the judge is only going to fine him 1 dollar when you win but it is done every now and then. You don’t sue the police station or the city, you sue the cop as a man for wrongfully busting you. Even if they are fined only a dollar chances they wont bother you again.
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wow, that's crazy. the first bolded section makes AR sound like a heaven, i've never heard of a place that just str8 up repealed ALL knife laws, that's awesome. however, the second bolded section is disturbing. it's bad enough that cops would do something illegal (wrongfully imprisoning an innocent), but to be so brazen as to openly express a willingness to do so while speaking to a civilian is insane :mad:
 
Noctis3880 said:
Couldn't you technically press charges if a police officer sends you to jail, arrests you, or fines you for something that wasn't illegal?
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you would have to establish the officer(s) acted knowingly in bad faith.


re the op, it is possible the sheriff was citing city/county law. ca has no length limit excepting autos, but most municipalities do have length restrictions.
 
MORIMOTOM said:
you would have to establish the officer(s) acted knowingly in bad faith.


re the op, it is possible the sheriff was citing city/county law. ca has no length limit excepting autos, but most municipalities do have length restrictions.
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Not necessarily. In the case I quoted, there was no proof of bad faith, only that the officer was wrong about "clearly established law" (the standard by which a police officer's right to qualified immunity to suit is judged). When an officer acts outside of "clearly established law," his or her immunity is void. Basically, my impression of the judge's ruling was that McGuigan should have known better.

One should of course always check county and city law though. Truth be told, I have yet to find county or city statutes that are not posted publically online. When doing google searches, strings such as "[county] code" or "[city] code" tend to point in the right direction.
 
glistam said:
Not necessarily. In the case I quoted, there was no proof of bad faith, only that the officer was wrong about "clearly established law" (the standard by which a police officer's right to qualified immunity to suit is judged). When an officer acts outside of "clearly established law," his or her immunity is void. Basically, my impression of the judge's ruling was that McGuigan should have known better.

One should of course always check county and city law though. Truth be told, I have yet to find county or city statutes that are not posted publically online. When doing google searches, strings such as "[county] code" or "[city] code" tend to point in the right direction.
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you said there was a lawsuit filed, was the officer prosecuted for a crime?
 
MORIMOTOM said:
you said there was a lawsuit filed, was the officer prosecuted for a crime?
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It was a lawsuit in this case, but no criminal conviction that I know of. I misunderstood what Noctis3880 meant by "press charges." When a civilian "presses charges" isn't that always a lawsuit? My understanding was that civilians cannot press criminal charges, only the prosecutor's office can decide to do that. The civilian simply petitions or otherwise makes them aware of evidence.
 
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glistam said:
It was a lawsuit in this case, but no criminal conviction that I know of. I misunderstood what Noctis3880 meant by "press charges." When a civilian "presses charges" isn't that always a lawsuit? My understanding was that civilians cannot press criminal charges, only the prosecutor's office can decide to do that. The civilian simply petitions or otherwise makes them aware of evidence.
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it depends on the context.

are we talking about a criminal or civil matter?

criminal = prosecution. someone can go to jail/prison.
civil = lawsuit. someone will have to pay some money.

it is possible to have jail/prison and compensation in a criminal trial, though not possible to have jail/prison in a civil trial.


a civilian can make a citizen's arrest, but ultimately it is the da/ca who prosectute. we use the term loosely so as not to confuse matters.

in other words, when someone says they want to "press charges" (:rolleyes:), what they are saying is they are desirous of prosection and the victim of a crime.

those federal us code 1983 matters are totally different and typically involve an "under color of authority" claim.
 
Noctis3880 said:
Couldn't you technically press charges if a police officer sends you to jail, arrests you, or fines you for something that wasn't illegal?
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You could file a civil suit against the officer as an individual and his/her department (including the chief) for false arrest, false imprisonment, damage to your good name, etc. If you ended up losing your job because of the arrest (boss reads about it in the newspaper, one of your fellow employees rats you out to Human Resources, you lose a security clearance needed for continued employment, etc.), you could also include lost wages, as well as legal fees, to your demands in the lawsuit. Here in MA, the limit is $200,000. Some states allow for pre-judgment attachments against assets. If the law allows this in your state, your lawyer may be able to file a lien against the officer's real property, which will prevent him/her from selling or refinancing. If you win the suit, you may be able to have the sheriff seize and sell the officer's home and car (sheriff's sale), levy bank accounts, etc. There may be other legal remedies as well. I am not an attorney, so I cannot give legal advice. You can only get legal advice from your own attorney.
 
TOM1960 said:
You could file a civil suit against the officer as an individual and his/her department (including the chief) for false arrest, false imprisonment, damage to your good name, etc. If you ended up losing your job because of the arrest (boss reads about it in the newspaper, one of your fellow employees rats you out to Human Resources, you lose a security clearance needed for continued employment, etc.), you could also include lost wages, as well as legal fees, to your demands in the lawsuit. Here in MA, the limit is $200,000. Some states allow for pre-judgment attachments against assets. If the law allows this in your state, your lawyer may be able to file a lien against the officer's real property, which will prevent him/her from selling or refinancing. If you win the suit, you may be able to have the sheriff seize and sell the officer's home and car (sheriff's sale), levy bank accounts, etc. There may be other legal remedies as well. I am not an attorney, so I cannot give legal advice. You can only get legal advice from your own attorney.
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as much as i hate to see it, it's starting to look like this is what's going to be necessary for LE, in general, to realize we are bound by the same laws as those we serve. we are the agent of the people, not their master. more and more, this is a forgotten concept and it's embarassing that it would take measures this extreme to put us (as a whole) back in our place :(

whatever, the manner in which it's achieved, the residents of this country deserve to be served by constitutionally correct L.E. :thumbup:
 
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