Knife Quest: Kitchen Edition

[Eli Chaps]

I've arrived at a place in my life where I can afford a little better things than I could a few years ago. Nothing extravagant, but if I'm discerning, better. I'm a function over form guy and that holds very true for my knives.

Some time ago I set out on a quest to find "my" best pocket knife/knives. Along the way I learned a lot. Like so many knife nuts out there, it can be hard to find places that have decent selections of knives that you can actually hold so we do our best to study, largely on the internet. I also gave away a number of knives during that endeavor. I'd narrowed down my selections enough that they were all quality offerings so I knew if I didn't like a particular model I could easily find a home for it. And, honestly, that was a large part of the fun. My son in law for example, now has a new appreciation for a good knife.

Anyway, it's time to embark on the kitchen knife edition. For about the last, I don't know, maybe eight or ten years, I've been using a mix of Wusthof's Gourmet and Le Cordon Bleu lines. Excellent knives for sure and high up on the function vs. form scale. I can get these knives stupid sharp and maintain them with little effort. The Gourmet line is very comfortable but my the couple "LCB" offerings I possess have skinnier handles than I like.

Although the Gourmet line is considered "entry level" or "budget friendly" I think they are excellent choices for folks who may be using a blister-pack Walmart special.

I only added in that background to give folks a semblance of where I'm coming from.

A few months ago I started getting serious about slowly "upgrading" the kitchen knife collection. Upgrading might not be the best term but I wanted to begin exploring what was out there and finding knife brands, designs, steels, etc. that really clicked with me.

There's some awesome makers here on BF and Eric J.S. and Robert Erickson really captivate me. More than once, I would've bought one of Eric's offerings if the timing had been right.

Okay, so my first knife on this quest has been given to me by my wife and it is a Yaxell Dragon 8.5" Gyuto. I spent weeks bouncing between my traditional western-style chef's knives and the flatter santoku's I have. Am I more of a rock chopper or a push cutter? Do I like a tall blade? And so on. I asked here on the forum about BD1N and received reassurance that it is pretty easy to maintain so that was a huge help. A new to me steel!

I was soooo close to just getting the Wusthof Ikon chef's knife. So close! But my Gourmet's are so similar in blade design and I reminded myself that I want to try different things.

The Yaxell offering is definitely different for me! The build quality is excellent and it is beautiful. But the knife design is so different than what I've been using for so many years that it feels a foreign. But that doesn't mean bad and I can't wait to spend a few weeks using and learning this knife and deciding it it will stay in the collection. During my self-torment of asking my wife for the Yaxell or the Wusthof, I was sharing with a friend and he said he would just go with the Wusthof because that is what he knows and he'd be afraid to try something different. But for me, that's the entire point of this endeavor!

I'm very intrigued by nakari's and there's some awesome pairing knives out there. And of course, more chef's knives that need exploring.

What say you all? Have you undergone this journey? What knives do you like? What styles do you prefer? Why? What else? Educate me.

Long winded I know but just hoping to generate some discussion not just around specific kitchen knives but the whole buying and testing process.

 

[Tommy-Chi]

I've arrived at a place in my life where I can afford a little better things than I could a few years ago. Nothing extravagant, but if I'm discerning, better. I'm a function over form guy and that holds very true for my knives.

Some time ago I set out on a quest to find "my" best pocket knife/knives. Along the way I learned a lot. Like so many knife nuts out there, it can be hard to find places that have decent selections of knives that you can actually hold so we do our best to study, largely on the internet. I also gave away a number of knives during that endeavor. I'd narrowed down my selections enough that they were all quality offerings so I knew if I didn't like a particular model I could easily find a home for it. And, honestly, that was a large part of the fun. My son in law for example, now has a new appreciation for a good knife.

Anyway, it's time to embark on the kitchen knife edition. For about the last, I don't know, maybe eight or ten years, I've been using a mix of Wusthof's Gourmet and Le Cordon Bleu lines. Excellent knives for sure and high up on the function vs. form scale. I can get these knives stupid sharp and maintain them with little effort. The Gourmet line is very comfortable but my the couple "LCB" offerings I possess have skinnier handles than I like.

Although the Gourmet line is considered "entry level" or "budget friendly" I think they are excellent choices for folks who may be using a blister-pack Walmart special.

I only added in that background to give folks a semblance of where I'm coming from.

A few months ago I started getting serious about slowly "upgrading" the kitchen knife collection. Upgrading might not be the best term but I wanted to begin exploring what was out there and finding knife brands, designs, steels, etc. that really clicked with me.

There's some awesome makers here on BF and Eric J.S. and Robert Erickson really captivate me. More than once, I would've bought one of Eric's offerings if the timing had been right.

Okay, so my first knife on this quest has been given to me by my wife and it is a Yaxell Dragon 8.5" Gyuto. I spent weeks bouncing between my traditional western-style chef's knives and the flatter santoku's I have. Am I more of a rock chopper or a push cutter? Do I like a tall blade? And so on. I asked here on the forum about BD1N and received reassurance that it is pretty easy to maintain so that was a huge help. A new to me steel!

I was soooo close to just getting the Wusthof Ikon chef's knife. So close! But my Gourmet's are so similar in blade design and I reminded myself that I want to try different things.

The Yaxell offering is definitely different for me! The build quality is excellent and it is beautiful. But the knife design is so different than what I've been using for so many years that it feels a foreign. But that doesn't mean bad and I can't wait to spend a few weeks using and learning this knife and deciding it it will stay in the collection. During my self-torment of asking my wife for the Yaxell or the Wusthof, I was sharing with a friend and he said he would just go with the Wusthof because that is what he knows and he'd be afraid to try something different. But for me, that's the entire point of this endeavor!

I'm very intrigued by nakari's and there's some awesome pairing knives out there. And of course, more chef's knives that need exploring.

What say you all? Have you undergone this journey? What knives do you like? What styles do you prefer? Why? What else? Educate me.

Long winded I know but just hoping to generate some discussion not just around specific kitchen knives but the whole buying and testing process.

Count me as interested. Looking for information for a future purchase.

Does anyone know if Eric J.S. or Robert Erickson manufacture kitchen knives with a fully exposed tang? I see a lot of stick tangs in kitchen cutlery and it turns me off.

 

[Eli Chaps]

Count me as interested. Looking for information for a future purchase.

Does anyone know if Eric J.S. or Robert Erickson manufacture kitchen knives with a fully exposed tang? I see a lot of stick tangs in kitchen cutlery and it turns me off.

Hi Tommy and thanks for the response.

I actually don't mind a rat tail in a kitchen knife. Or more accurately, it isn't an immediate dismissal for me. As long as the knife has good balance and build quality, I'm okay with it. The aforementioned Gourmet line has rat tails and they have been rock steady for years. For me, if it is a rat tail, then overall quality becomes much more important.

 

[Sid Post]

I shop Japanese kitchen knives almost exclusively. I really find the Nakiri useful. I like the flatter "French" chef's knife profile of the Gyuto over the classic German offerings. A good cleaver and Honesuki should not be overlooked.

 

[Tommy-Chi]

Hi Tommy and thanks for the response.

I actually don't mind a rat tail in a kitchen knife. Or more accurately, it isn't an immediate dismissal for me. As long as the knife has good balance and build quality, I'm okay with it. The aforementioned Gourmet line has rat tails and they have been rock steady for years. For me, if it is a rat tail, then overall quality becomes much more important.

I'm still "learning" abt kitchen knives. Thank you for your response.

 

[Alberta Ed]

Check out Brazilian cutliero Ivan Campos (http://www.ivancampos.net/) -- he does some cool kitchen cutlery.

 

[jc57]

I really find the Nakiri useful. I like the flatter "French" chef's knife profile of the Gyuto over the classic German offerings

Same here. I much prefer the flatter gyuto profile. I use a nakiri quite often - #2 behind the gyuto.

It's a journey, like anything else. You try different knife styles and different techniques until you dial in what works for you.

Choice of kitchen knives should be driven by how you use them. How often, how much use at one time, what your ingredients are and what your recipes call for.

There are lots of examples - but for instance if you buy boneless chicken pieces, you don't need a knife that is specialized for breaking down whole chickens. If you only buy fish fillets, you don't need knives for processing a whole fish. If you cook recipes that require thinly or uniformly sliced, or finely diced or julienned vegetables, chopped or minced fresh herbs and garlic, then you might need a knife well suited to that.

Also keep in mind that your whole system needs to be in sync - cutting surfaces, your knife skills and techniques, sharpening tools and skills, washing and drying routines, and storage choices. No sense in any one of those being way out in front of the others, or way behind either.

 

[Eli Chaps]

I shop Japanese kitchen knives almost exclusively. I really find the Nakiri useful. I like the flatter "French" chef's knife profile of the Gyuto over the classic German offerings. A good cleaver and Honesuki should not be overlooked.

I first became intrigued by the honesuki a few years ago when I saw Chris Cosentino on YouTube de-bone a chicken. I don't know how many times I've watched that video?! Last Thanksgiving I de-boned an entire turkey and the entire time I was wondering if a honesuki would feel better than my slim little western boning knife.

I also think a quality but budget friendly honesuki would be a nice knife of the wife. She has a Henkell's utility knife that she adores and is her everything knife but I'd like to nudge her into trying something else as well.

 

[phatch]

If you go into Japanese knives you'll encounter many assymetric grinds as well.

Mac Pro are good. Tojiro probably a bit more popular but assymetric often. Misono UX 10 also quite good.

 

[Eli Chaps]

Same here. I much prefer the flatter gyuto profile. I use a nakiri quite often - #2 behind the gyuto.

It's a journey, like anything else. You try different knife styles and different techniques until you dial in what works for you.

Choice of kitchen knives should be driven by how you use them. How often, how much use at one time, what your ingredients are and what your recipes call for.

There are lots of examples - but for instance if you buy boneless chicken pieces, you don't need a knife that is specialized for breaking down whole chickens. If you only buy fish fillets, you don't need knives for processing a whole fish. If you cook recipes that require thinly or uniformly sliced, or finely diced or julienned vegetables, chopped or minced fresh herbs and garlic, then you might need a knife well suited to that.

Also keep in mind that your whole system needs to be in sync - cutting surfaces, your knife skills and techniques, sharpening tools and skills, washing and drying routines, and storage choices. No sense in any one of those being way out in front of the others, or way behind either.

Yessir. All of the things you mentioned have been rolling around in my brain and are serious considerations in my choices.

I don't, for example, use water stones, so I consider that when considering options. I do like to debone chicken and I do like to chop veggies, herbs, etc.

You are quite right that all these things really do need to be considered and do help you focus. Or perhaps, they tell you you need other things first, before the knife. And so on.

 

[zhyla]

I’m a big fan of Japanese designs for kitchen knives. I don’t have brand recommendations though. I just bought steel, built an electric oven, and made my own.

 

[Eli Chaps]

If you go into Japanese knives you'll encounter many assymetric grinds as well.

Mac Pro are good. Tojiro probably a bit more popular but assymetric often. Misono UX 10 also quite good.

My bench stones are SiC and Arkansas and I'm not entirely sure about using them on the more "traditional" Japanese steels and grinds. I'm also not necessarily a clad guy. I'd prefer straight carbon over the abundant clad/Damascus/hammered stuff out there. But for sure I've discovered I need to be mindful of the grind when I'm looking.

 

[Ourorboros]

If you like the idea of portioning chicken, you might try a utility style petty knife instead. A more versatile design and some prefer it over the honesuki for chicken.
If you do get a honesuki, be aware that the Shun Blue is an inch shorter than normal.

I usually ask people how they treat their knives and how they use them.
If that knife is going to take a beating or abused, it's better to get a European (style) knife or at least one of the softer Japanese knives. Harder, thinner Japanese steels will chip with abuse.
If it isn't going to be wiped down during pauses in use and immediately after washing, go stainless.
Then there is the question of use. Do you rock chop? And if you do, do you rock chop taller stuff? There are flatter profiles that can rock chop scallions an herbs, but half a large onion is out of the question. Those flatter profiles are great for push cutters and choppers though.

Nakiris are great for vegetables. Very agile with their shorter length. You might even consider a Chinese Vegetable Cleaver or Chuka-bocho to the Japanese - the big brother to the nakiri. It requires a three finger pinch grip, but plows through vegetable and meat.

As far as your whetstones, Arkansas isn't going to handle harder steels. SiC is hard, but I have yet to find one nice enough that I'd let it touch my J-knives. You'll find a large freehand sharpening contingent in the J-knife world.

Those are two very large and costly rabbit holes to dive into. But fun.

 

[GatorFlash1]

I can fund just about any kitchen knife set being sold. That being said, I like to use what the pro chefs use. I read about this in my wife's Chef Illustrated magazine and bought a set of knives. My current kitchen hardware is Victorinox Fibrox (the Swiss Army knife folks). The Fibrox is light weight, easy to clean up, and holds a edge for a good while. My wife likes them, a very important feature not mentioned in most reviews. I bought them for use, not to show off at cocktail parties. For the price my Scotish ancestors are very proud of me.

Here are some videos about the Fibrox kitchen knives. Enjoy!

 

[Phil Indablanc]

I have a few nice kitchen knives, and the Wusthofs and Henckels are relegated to work that I wouldn't want my nicer knives doing. If you are looking for something western style and not too expensive, I have had very good luck with Global. I like the Japanese knives and have a Zakuri from Japanese Knife Imports and a Kikuichi that I basically stole when a local chef store went out of business. My all time favorite chef knife is my Bradford in M390 with a carbon fiber handle. I don't think there are any in stock and I am not sure if they will be making any more though.

 

[ridnovir]

I would start with a good Gyuto (general purpose knife that does everything (vegies and meat) 210 or 240mm in length

I would stick with Aogami Super or White #2 carbon steels (easy to sharpen and one of the best carbon steels today)

There are some exotic stainless steels like zdp-189 but the prices will be over 500


These ones are good value (combination of price steel and workmanship)

https://japanesechefsknife.com/coll...to-210mm-to-270mm-3-sizes?variant=33605822478


https://knifewear.com/collections/masakage-koishi/products/masakage-koishi-as-gyuto-240mm


this site is good and has a ton of info plus all kinds of knives (you can sort by steel or type), stones and accessories (also check the resources tab)


http://www.chefknivestogo.com/rilaaosu24gy.html

or

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/rikoaosu21gy.html


this one is a bit more but very popular, steel is good too

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kohdwa24.html


Then I would go for two good petty knives one around 100mm and the other around 150mm (or you can just buy one petty in 120mm range)


http://www.chefknivestogo.com/petty-knives.html


Once you have these 2-3 knifes you have a good set that will handle %95 of your kitchen needs.

All these sets you see in department stores with 5-15 knifes a set are useless, overpriced and inferior in terms of steel and utility and are aimed at general consumer that does not know anything about knives.

 

[Sid Post]

First, 80/20 or 90/10 grinds are a choice not a requirement in most Japanese knives unless the knife itself is asymmetric (like an Usuba vs. a Nakiri).

Waterstones for average Japanese knives don't need to cost a fortune or to be hard to source. Kings can be had dirt cheap (practically) and nicer waterstones are ~$40. You don't need a $100+ waterstone anymore than you need a Sebenza (or any custom folder) to open your mail.

Regarding steels, White #1 or #2 isn't going to be much different from most common 'carbon' steels. Entry level stainless is essentially the same with various common steels being used.

Yes, you can get crazy expensive Japanese knives in 'super steels' but, the average Japanese household probably doesn't spend more than ~$20 (plus VAT) for a stainless clad carbon kitchen knife. I have recently picked up a pair of Japanese market Tojiro stainless clad VG-10 knives that were ~$20 shipped CONUS. While not anything to brag about in terms of cosmetics or steel, it is hard to argue with the results in the kitchen from a properly heat treated VG-10 core surrounded by 405 stainless. I have also used Japanese White #2 knives of similar construction that were very impressive in actual use which were ~$40 at a custom knife show.

 

[emperorwang]

I can fund just about any kitchen knife set being sold. That being said, I like to use what the pro chefs use. I read about this in my wife's Chef Illustrated magazine and bought one. My current kitchen hardware is Victorinox Fibrox (the Swiss Army folks). The Fibrox is light weight, easy to clean up, and holds a edge for a good while. My wife likes them, a very important feature not mentioned in most reviews. I bought them for use, not to show off at cocktail parties. For the price my Scotish ancestors are very proud of me.

Here are some videos about the Fibrox kitchen knives. Enjoy!

Second this.

I'm a pretty serious home cook and use Victorinox fibrox set, plus a Vic santoku chefs knife (single piece forged) and they are the best kitchen knives I've ever personally owned.

 

[Jody744]

I really enjoy my Murray Carter knife, and my PB&J paring knife in the kitchen. Both purchased from makers at Blade show,@ 10 years apart!

 

[Makael]

BUCK kitchen sets