Knife Sharpening - Cheap Santoku vs. Water Stones

[Magnaminous_G]

Thanks for all the great advice and suggestions on dealing with this type of knife (thin, cheap, Japanese-style kitchen knives). I made a vid of sharpening one such knife based on the suggestions in this thread.


[youtube]JWlucd508lQ[/youtube]

 

[xuz]

Thanks for the vid!

If I may, since you are already using newspaper for sharpness test,
maybe you can show some cuts where you swerve the knife.
For some reason quick, uni-directional cuts are always easier than swerving cuts.
Maybe it's just me.

 

[Magnaminous_G]

Thanks for the vid!

If I may, since you are already using newspaper for sharpness test,
maybe you can show some cuts where you swerve the knife.
For some reason quick, uni-directional cuts are always easier than swerving cuts.
Maybe it's just me.

@28:47 Cheers! But let's make sure there is no confusion:

The goal of each sharpening (angle, refinement, grit-progression) depends on the knife, the steel, and the POU. Why no hair-whittling demonstration? Well, you'll find that a hair-whittling edge is pointless for any purpose but hair-whittling, and that level of refinement has a very short effective life and can even be detrimental depending on the knife and the POU. I think about each sharpening carefully because it should have a goal: what is this knife, what is it supposed to be used for, and who is using it? This particular knife (a beat-to-hell, $10--probably--Chinese Santoku), it's steel, it's intended use, and it's owner all make for a sharpening that doesn't involve busting out the diamond sprays and balsa. Additionally, I would ask you if holding the knife horizontally (parallel to floor) and push cutting all over the edge on newsprint is really all that easy? I've been sharpening for a while, and you could have fooled me...

 

[xuz]

Excellent response.
Horizontal push cut is no easy task for sure.
I also agree with you about hair whittling edge being mostly a circus trick for heavy use knife.
(Cool factor is, however, undeniable.)
The newspaper cuts are, though, still a bit of mystery to me.
I do it using phone books (which I found to be harder than most newspapers),
but I'm not sure if it's any better than using finger or thumb pad;
again in the case of heavier use knives.
On one hand, if you allow even slight sawing motion,
then you can get a knife to cut them with 400 grit stone and couple swipes on the leather.
So it's easy to achieve off the stone.
On the other hand, if you get a few tiny little chips, then it'll fail the test.
But in reality, tiny chips don't affect the cutting performance at all.
So it's easy to achieve, it's easy to fail, and many times don't correlate with real performance.
Well, I babbled for no reason.
I'm just trying to square things in my head by typing them out.

Anyways thanks for the vid, I enjoy and learn from them.

@28:47 Cheers! But let's make sure there is no confusion:

The goal of each sharpening (angle, refinement, grit-progression) depends on the knife, the steel, and the POU. Why no hair-whittling demonstration? Well, you'll find that a hair-whittling edge is pointless for any purpose but hair-whittling, and that level of refinement has a very short effective life and can even be detrimental depending on the knife and the POU. I think about each sharpening carefully because it should have a goal: what is this knife, what is it supposed to be used for, and who is using it? This particular knife (a beat-to-hell, $10--probably--Chinese Santoku), it's steel, it's intended use, and it's owner all make for a sharpening that doesn't involve busting out the diamond sprays and balsa. Additionally, I would ask you if holding the knife horizontally (parallel to floor) and push cutting all over the edge on newsprint is really all that easy? I've been sharpening for a while, and you could have fooled me...

 

[Magnaminous_G]

Newsprint is a very good test of sharpness and burr removal... especially for a video demonstration. I could finish my sharpening and then look into the camera and say, "Yup, she's sharp!" But the newsprint demonstration is a visual demonstration that viewers can quickly grasp. But even if I'm just sharpening alone with no camera rolling, I often test on newsprint. Newsprint confirms cleanness of the edge. It also reacts differently and sounds different depending on the level of refinement and edge cleanliness. If it push cuts all over the edge in all directions, does S-cuts, and "whispers," you've undeniably got a very fine, burr-free edge. If there are chips or burr left on that edge, the newsprint will let you know. And hey, if it's good enough for Murray Carter, it's good enough for me.

 

[HeavyHanded]

Newsprint is a very good test of sharpness and burr removal... especially for a video demonstration. I could finish my sharpening and then look into the camera and say, "Yup, she's sharp!" But the newsprint demonstration is a visual demonstration that viewers can quickly grasp. But even if I'm just sharpening alone with no camera rolling, I often test on newsprint. Newsprint confirms cleanness of the edge. It also reacts differently and sounds different depending on the level of refinement and edge cleanliness. If it push cuts all over the edge in all directions, does S-cuts, and "whispers," you've undeniably got a very fine, burr-free edge. If there are chips or burr left on that edge, the newsprint will let you know. And hey, if it's good enough for Murray Carter, it's good enough for me.

Yes, it might not be the ultimate test but indeed a good test nonetheless. It pays to use both sides of the newspaper too, as noted in another thread, the paper comes off a roll, so which way its natural inclination is to buckle will effect a cut test. One can also cut very slowly crossgrain, and allow the cut side to flop over, making a curl. How the edge deals with constantly cutting into this curl will tell quite a bit. Even draw cutting tells us something too, especially if we see how shallow an angle the edge can overcome etc. No easy bonafide tests that can be done for a video, but you have to show something and most of us no longer have enough arm hair to shave that every time we do an edge. Cutting paper towel is a good test too, but much variation from brand to brand and batch to batch...

 

[BluntCut MetalWorks]

Mag - Nice clean edge:thumbup:

I afraid you made the knife too sharp. The knife owner probably will roll that edge in a minute (or a few cuts/chops) because of heavy pressure edge contact with the cutting board. But oh hey, bring it to Mag, he will sharpen'em for free