Knife sharpening question

D

daDozer

Joined
Feb 15, 2018
Messages
6
Hey guys, so I've tried so many different methods of sharpening from the lansky, to the sharpmaker, and I've landed with the KO worksharp. So far, that's the method I can get the sharpest edges with. About a year ago I got an edgepro, with several different stones. After not being able to get as good of an edge on it as I do with my worksharp I put it away.

I recently started to try it again and I keep getting odd results with it I was hoping you guys could give me some insight.

Basically, after I run through all my stones and I do the phonebook paper test if I hold the knife at more of an angle, it will slice through the paper like butter. But it only seems to do that at a specific small range of angle. If I veer outside of this range, the edge seems to get caught, or even "rub" against the page just crinkling it. It'll shave, but not great, I feel I have to put a lot of pressure than normal to get it to shave.

So what's going on here? Am I moving through my stones too fast, am I being inconsistent on the edgepro? Can anyone help me out? Thanks!
 
Hey, Dozer; I'm not too familiar with the EdgePro, but it seems like you are not completely removing the burr. The burr is sharp, but not what you want.
 
That's a burr, most likely. It's leaning to one side a little bit, which will produce those catching, sliding or 'rubbing' issues you describe happening when the edge is oriented at a certain angle. But if the edge is oriented just so in another direction, it'll still cut a little bit and could even shave. Burrs are sharp, sometimes very much so; but they're also weak, which is why they'll fold or lean over and create issues like this. It'll cut better on the side to which it leans, and won't cut well (maybe not at all) from the side away from which it leans.
 
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That's great guys, thank you so much for your reply. I'll hop back on the edge pro soon and see what I can do. Over the past few years I've spent so much money on different sharpening tools. What do you guys prefer to use? Speed used to be a huge factor for me which is why I enjoyed the worksharp so much. Gave me a great edge with little time. But over the years I've acquired nicer knives, which in turn made me obsess over the bevels of my knives. They have to be perfect!
 
Don't worry, just keep practicing. I felt the same way when I first got my edge pro, it got my knives sharp, but not as sharp as they could be.

Get a 10x loupe and check your edge as you go through the progression. Once you get to the polish tapes there shouldn't be much burr left. Sometimes after the 1000 grit stone, I'll go to the polish tapes and raise my angle just a hair to make sure I'm really polishing up the edge and removing any stray metal.

Also, pick up a kangaroo leather strop and some 1 micron diamond spray from CKTG. Strop at the same angle you sharpened at, just a few light passes on each side. That should get just about any steel hair whittling sharp, although sometimes I have to go down to .5 micron depending on the steel. I just stropped my CTS-XHP Domino with .5 micron diamond and it whittles a free standing hair.
 
Here's my theory:

A fully apexed edge is sharp, no matter what the grit stone that got it there. A coarse edge that's fully apexed is very sharp. With a Worksharp, it's easier to get fully apexed because it's a power tool and the effort is low compared to hand sharpening.

With a hand tool, a lot of people are careful and/or lazy. They get a partial burr and they stop. By "partial burr", I mean one that does not go full length down the edge. It's very easy to stop before you get that last little bit when doing it by hand. Or in more extreme cases (like I used to do), barely apexing any of the edge at all and thinking it's done when you find a burr on part of the edge.

Here's a test you can do to see if my theory is anywhere close to reality: Sharpen some inexpensive blade on your WSKO and make it nice and sharp. Test it on phonebook paper. Now, cut the edge *very* lightly into a stone for 2 or 3 strokes maximum. It will now be so dull that it will not cut your skin. But it shouldn't require a whole lot of effort to make it sharp again.

So, take that lightly dulled edge to the Edge Pro and do your normal thing. Once you think it's sharp, test with phonebook paper. Is it the same as it was from the WSKO? That should tell you something about what's going on. If it's NOT the same as from the WSKO, it might be a burr issue. If it *is* the same, then it's simply an apexing issue.

Good luck!

Brian.
 
Fully apexed 140 grit after stropping can shave arm hair. It doesn't take that much. Having said that I freehand, I also use a belt sander as well as paper wheels. I have a ken onion but don't use it.
 
Btw OP, which steels are you sharpening? In principle sharpening is sharpening, but some steels are more stubborn than others. Something like 8cr13mov creates quite a large burr, 8cr13mov is pretty easy to sharpen but burr removal is more important than something like 204p that doesn't form much of a burr at all. The only reason I ask is that it took me a while to learn the quirks of each steel which adds a little twist to the learning process.
 
brando555 said:
Get a 10x loupe and check your edge as you go through the progression
Click to expand...
This is HUGE !
That and using a sharpie marker and being sure to adjust for stone thickness on each stone.
Use the Stop Collar.

I can not imagine using a belt sander to sharpen a pocket knife. It is too aggressive and would wear away a knife in no time.

Following all the steps in the booklet TO THE LETTER and following Ben's videos . . . I'm a check list maker if there ever was one . . .
but
practically from the first knife I could get edges that would take multiple curls off a hair while it was still in my arm.
I'm not bragging. It is in no way my skill it is just an example of how capable the Edge Pro CAN BE !

To repeat I use magnification ( a high power jeweler's visor ) to check for the bur removal
and
using that I can see the curls coming off a hair in my arm. By the way going from root to tip on the the hair is more difficult / proves an edge better than going from tip to root due to the platelets on the hair snag the edge and is easier to cut curls going tip toward the root.

I would go so far as to say people who do not sharpen with a jig (correctly) don't quite realize just how good an edge can get.
 
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brando555 said:
Btw OP, which steels are you sharpening? .....
Click to expand...

That's a good question, I never took this into account. The one I'm having trouble with is my para 3, S30v. I haven't sharpened my lower grade steels lately but when I did awhile back I remember getting a very good edge on it. Thanks for all the input guys, this has helped me tremendously. I'll give all the tips a try and see how I do.
 
daDozer said:
That's a good question, I never took this into account. The one I'm having trouble with is my para 3, S30v. I haven't sharpened my lower grade steels lately but when I did awhile back I remember getting a very good edge on it. Thanks for all the input guys, this has helped me tremendously. I'll give all the tips a try and see how I do.
Click to expand...


S30V can be a little tricky, especially if you're using the alum oxide Edge Pro stones. That kit was made for basic sharpening of kitchen knives, 8cr13mov, etc and while you can sharpen 'super steels' you won't achieve the highest sharpness you can with better abrasives like diamond, cbn, or SiC.

S30V has a decent amount of vanadium and from what I've found to get it really, really sharp you want to use diamond or SiC stones.

If you don't want to spend a ton, I'd recommend getting a 240 and 600 or 240 and 1000 grit SiC stone. You could probably even get away with using your 220 grit EP stone, it's pretty good at setting the bevel even on stuff like s30v, but towards the later stages you'll want something like SiC or diamond.

https://www.gritomatic.com/collections/edge-pro-stones/products/silicon-carbide-stone-for-edge-pro
 
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Wowbagger said:
This is HUGE !
That and using a sharpie marker and being sure to adjust for stone thickness on each stone.
Use the Stop Collar.

I can not imagine using a belt sander to sharpen a pocket knife. It is too aggressive and would wear away a knife in no time.

Following all the steps in the booklet TO THE LETTER and following Ben's videos . . . I'm a check list maker if there ever was one . . .
but
practically from the first knife I could get edges that would take multiple curls off a hair while it was still in my arm.
I'm not bragging. It is in no way my skill it is just an example of how capable the Edge Pro CAN BE !

To repeat I use magnification ( a high power jeweler's visor ) to check for the bur removal
and
using that I can see the curls coming off a hair in my arm. By the way going from root to tip on the the hair is more difficult / proves an edge better than going from tip to root due to the platelets on the hair snag the edge and is easier to cut curls going tip toward the root.

I would go so far as to say people who do not sharpen with a jig (correctly) don't quite realize just how good an edge can get.
Click to expand...
I agree with you 100 percent and couldn't agree more on that last sentence. I use the KME, Hair popping mirror finishes after very little practice. BTW Op getting a full bur tip to tang on the First stone is the Key. Good luck and keep practicing :thumbsup:
 
The more precise the gear you are using the more accurate you need to be while using it. The belt allows for a little less accuracy, once you switch to a progression of solid stones you need to elevate the observation aspect. A miss is as good as a mile - you are either on or you are not.
 
Hey guys, I took your advice and applied them to my next sharpening session. I was able to achieve maximum sharpness. I do believe that it had to do with me not removing the burr completely before moving to the next stone and making sure I had a burr down the entire length of the knife. I paid close attention when I was nearing the end of each stone cycle. I made sure to make only a few light passes on either side paying attention to the sound and feel it made. It got to the point to where I could make one light stroke on a side, go to the other side and it was like I could tell I was removing the bur with one or two passes. I did this with each stone from 220-1000 and onto stropping. This is the sharpest I've ever gotten this S30V blade.

Thanks everyone for all your input.
 
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