Knife sharpening recommendation.

[Meast58]

Hello,

This is my first post on Blade Forums, I wanted to start off by saying hello to everyone and thank you for any recommendations you give.
I am looking to improve my sharpening skills. I am getting more into sharpening and would like to look into other options. Currently, I am using red and tan DMT diamond stones, “burnishing” the edge with 5,000 grit 3M sandpaper, and then stropping with black and green compounds. Doing that I can get a pretty good edge. It will easily shave hair off my arm but I know it could be better. I have seen some videos on Youtube and the edges some of those guys can get are insane. I am considering an Edge Pro Apex as an option. I am also considering getting a set of nice wet stones and trying free hand sharpening. I don’t know which one would be the most effective. What do you guys think would be best? Please feel free to make any suggestions.

Thanks,

 

[dkb45]

Fill in the gaps in the stones. The tan DMT stone is their XXF and I believe it is 3 microns, while the red is F at 25 microns. The XXF will never get the F scratches out.

Only other thing I can think of is just be super careful of your angle while stropping. Too steep and you kill your apex and limit how sharp you can get the edge.

 

[Meast58]

Yea, you're right! Do you think I should pick up more of the DMT stones? What is your sharpening process?

 

[oXObsidianXo]

I only mention this because you said you were thinking about getting the Edge Pro Apex.

I recently picked up a Wicked Edge Pro-Pack II, and let me say that I have gotten nothing but phenomenal results with it from my very first knife. Yes it is costly, but I managed to get shaving sharp, push cut phone book paper sharp on every knife I've sharpened so far. Roughly 20 knives. And there was hardly any learning curve.

However, if you are already a competent free hand sharpener, I might just stick with that. I only picked up the Wicked Edge because I had no free hand equipment and minimal free hand experience.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

You could likely omit the black stropping compound from your sequence. Chances are, it's coarser (maybe much coarser) than either of the EEF DMT (tan) or the 5000-grit sandpaper, and would likely overwhelm or erase any benefit obtained from those (assuming they were used to full effect, meaning a completely-apexed edge and fully-refined scratch pattern).

As mentioned, if you're looking for more polished bevels (independent of sharpness), then 'filling the gap' between the DMT Fine (red; 25µ) and EEF (tan; 3µ) with the DMT EF (green; 9µ) would help. If polishing the bevels on high-vanadium steels like S30V and similar, following that hone sequence with diamond paste in 6/3/1µ grit sizes would work much more effectively than either the black or green compound (might be able to skip the 6µ).

Most real sharpness should be attained from the hones alone; get as much from the very first hone as you can. The DMT 'Fine' hone, by itself, is capable of shaving/hair-popping sharpness, if used to full effect with good technique. If your edge is already shaving-sharp at that stage, the refining and stropping steps will be much, much easier, with minimal passes on each.

And WELCOME to the forum, BTW.


David

 

[Meast58]

Thank you so much! That was really helpful. Is there any real advantage to say Japanese stones over a diamond stone? I love the thought of being able to get a beautiful mirror polished edge. Is it possible to get a mirror polish using DMT products? I am a little overwhelmed with all the different sharpening methods and all the different products.

 

[calc]

The XXF will never get the F scratches out.

My first thought as well. Bridging the gap with the EF would definitely help.

The DMT 'Fine' hone, by itself, is capable of shaving/hair-popping sharpness, if used to full effect with good technique. If your edge is already shaving-sharp at that stage, the refining and stropping steps will be much, much easier, with minimal passes on each.

A DMT F edge is very, very nice. I generally stop sharpening S30V at this grit.

Thank you so much! That was really helpful. Is there any real advantage to say Japanese stones over a diamond stone? I love the thought of being able to get a beautiful mirror polished edge. Is it possible to get a mirror polish using DMT products? I am a little overwhelmed with all the different sharpening methods and all the different products.

You can definitely attain a mirror polish using DMT products, especially if you already use the EEF grit - you just need to refine the scratch pattern a bit better in between steps. This is my edge using DMT F/EF and Spyderco UF:

 

[Meast58]

My first thought as well. Bridging the gap with the EF would definitely help.



A DMT F edge is very, very nice. I generally stop sharpening S30V at this grit.



You can definitely attain a mirror polish using DMT products, especially if you already use the EEF grit - you just need to refine the scratch pattern a bit better in between steps. This is my edge using DMT F/EF and Spyderco UF:

I have heard of the Spyderco UF stone. That seems to be a handy thing to have. Thanks for the picture. I think I'm going to buy one, along with a the green DMT stone. It seems like you don't need a fancy sharpening system to get an extremely good edge.

I just wanted to say, that the ESEE Izula is one of my favorite knives. :thumbup:

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Thank you so much! That was really helpful. Is there any real advantage to say Japanese stones over a diamond stone? I love the thought of being able to get a beautiful mirror polished edge. Is it possible to get a mirror polish using DMT products? I am a little overwhelmed with all the different sharpening methods and all the different products.

YES, especially if you use every grit to full effect in a sequence like this (assuming DMT 'Fine' is your first step):

DMT Fine 25µ > EF 9µ > EEF 3µ > DMT Dia-Paste @ 6µ > 3µ > 1µ (the paste is excellent if used on wood, like balsa, basswood, or maple)

If you're polishing bevels on lower-wear steels (low carbide content), you could do an awful lot with a tight sequence of wet/dry sandpaper on a hard backing (stone, glass, hardwood), in a sequence like:

220/320 (for setting bevels) > 400 > 600 > 800 > 1000 (or 1200) > 1500 > 2000 > 2500 > etc.

Follow that with white rouge (aluminum oxide) compound on a strop, or you could also use something like Flitz or Simichrome, or Mother's Mag Aluminum & Wheel Polish as well. Could also use the diamond product sequence as above, but it'd be overkill on many low-wear steels (1095, CV, 420HC, etc.), and remove a lot more steel than would be necessary, even at finer grits. These steels respond very well to the wet/dry sandpaper and aluminum oxide stropping, and that's usually my preferred method for sharpening them.

The whole idea in attaining mirror-polished bevels is to keep the grit gaps as narrow as possible, to ensure that the grind pattern from each step is completely replaced by the finer grind pattern in each successive step that follows.


David

 

[Meast58]

I'm not sure if this is on the right track. I started by using the red F stone, then I used the 5000 paper. I finished honing with the tan XXF stone. It made a noticeable difference putting the 5000 grit paper between the F and XXF. I will buy a green stone as soon as I can, and also pick up a Spyderco UF. Thank you to every one who offered advice. If anyone has anymore suggestions; I am very interested in learning more about sharpening.

Thanks,

 

[Meast58]

Every time I rise to a new grit how long should it take to remove the scratches caused by the lower coarser grit?

 

[calc]

I have heard of the Spyderco UF stone. That seems to be a handy thing to have. Thanks for the picture. I think I'm going to buy one, along with a the green DMT stone. It seems like you don't need a fancy sharpening system to get an extremely good edge.

It's definitely a nice finishing step, and the DMT EF is a nice hone. You can get screaming sharp edges with just DMT C/F/EF, which you can get in their Diafolds for under $50... and since they're diamond, they can handle just about any steel.

Technique wins over fancy equipment every time. Sometimes I'll get a wobbly bevel here or there, but I don't miss my clamped or guided systems at all now.

I just wanted to say, that the ESEE Izula is one of my favorite knives. :thumbup:

Yep! Mine's got a permanent home in my tool bag.

 

[Meast58]

I stabbed myself in the hand with my Izula a few days after i got it. It wasn't a little cut, it was a full on stab It probably needed stitches. I beat the crap out of it for a few weeks after that. Now for some reason ever since we have been bonded together. I think it's probably tied for first place with my Paramilitary 2 as my favorite knife.

I really thought I was going to get an Edge pro or something like it. Now after talking to you guys I think I'm going to go with free hand and buy a few things I'm missing to really make my knives pop.

 

[Meast58]

Sorry, double post.

 

[calc]

I stabbed myself in the hand with it a few days after I got it. It wasn't some wimpy little cut, it was a full on stab. I beat the crap out of it for a few weeks after that; I have used it harder than almost any knife I own. Now for some reason ever since we have been bonded together. I think it's probably tied for first place with my Paramilitary 2 as my favorite knife.

The Para 2 is my favorite folder, I love that thing. Perfect ergos for me.

I really thought I was going to get an Edge pro or something like it. Now after talking to you guys I think I'm going to go with free hand and buy a few things I'm missing to really make my knives pop.

If you're going to try out freehanding, I'd recommend starting cheap with a Smith's Tri Hone or something along those lines. Get the basics down, get the muscle memory in, and go to town on some cheap knives for a while. That's what I did after I botched a couple - starting slow with the basics is the best way to go IMO. It takes a while to get down properly. IIRC it took me a couple months before I could get a cleanly shaving edge without stropping.

But just FYI those stones aren't going to do well on steels like S30V or ZDP-189, so you'd eventually have to go with something else. And, of course, there's nothing wrong with the Edge Pro. Whatever works for you best, works for you best.

 

[Meast58]

What would be best all around, for different steels? I try to buy knives in different steels, so I have things ranging from H1 to ZDP-189. Is there a one set fits all kind of thing?

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Every time I rise to a new grit how long should it take to remove the scratches caused by the lower coarser grit?

Best thing is to inspect the scratches with a good magnifier under BRIGHT light, to reveal any coarse scratches that might otherwise be overlooked. Any areas of overlap, or where the coarser scratches intersect with finer ones, will be more obvious when inspected closely. Look especially closely at the areas very near to the apex of the edge; that's where the coarse scratches will often be overlooked, and it's easy to come up a bit short of full apex on subsequent steps.


David

 

[calc]

What would be best all around, for different steels? I try to buy knives in different steels, so I have things ranging from H1 to ZDP-189. Is there a one set fits all kind of thing?

Best all around? I would go with diamonds, I suppose. They can handle all steels, whereas natural stones cannot (unless you intend on spending a ridiculous amount of time on steels like ZDP).

 

[Meast58]

Best all around? I would go with diamonds, I suppose. They can handle all steels, whereas natural stones cannot (unless you intend on spending a ridiculous amount of time on steels like ZDP).

Ok, thanks.

 

[Allen R.]

Shaptons can sharpen whatever u want , but your going to pay for them , after more money than I care to talk about spent on Japanese water stones I always come back to my dmts and spyderco ceramic bench stones, IMO that is the best combo to have , to save money one could buy the DMT 2x6 double sided hones, however the extra extra fine is only available in 8x3 , in my expierence though one can go from DMT XF to ceramic, and still have a nice polish, I suggest worrying more about how your edge performs first while you get your technique down,(microbeveling) then trying to polish your bevel. I did this and before I knew it I was getting a mirror polished bevel everytime.

I was challenged to not use a strop on my edges and to see if I could get the same level of sharpness without strops, and I'll admit its a challenge but it makes you be a lot more careful on your finishing stone. After many trials and errors I no longer use strops , that's a whole other thread but I do encourage you to try freehanding without stropping and see what results you get.