Knife Shows in this Economy?

[Kevin Jones]

Though this thread doesn't necessarily have anything to do with Bruce Voyles recent thread where he announced his postponing July’s "Spirit of Steel Show", it did start my thinking on the subject.

First of all, it’s yet to be determined if or how much knife shows are going to suffer from this horrid economical climate. As usual, there seems to be mixed opinions as to the degree of success enjoyed by the few recent shows.

At the risk of my starting yet another thread which asks a question, I’m wondering if there could be benefit for promoters, dealers, makers and even collectors in postponing more shows until the current economy improves. Again, I'm only wondering not saying promoters should postpone shows and referring more to the smaller to medium (regional shows) rather than those such as Blade.

I find it interesting, that as it’s worked out, we are finding an increase in knife shows rather than a decrease in number.

From a maker’s standpoint, show postponements could be looked at two ways.

As a negative, it could reduce exposure for maker’s knives at a time when they may need it most. However some maker’s might welcome a few postponements as they may not be able to afford the expense of going to shows in this economy only to loose money due to weak sales. He may rather use this time and/or money to advertise or catch up on his/her orders. I’m assuming there are usually negatives association with a maker/dealer canceling as they are pre-committed to table fees and could lost their table position or even ability to return the following year.

I imagine dealers could benefit, as fewer shows may boost their on-line sales, though I realize Les says his internet sales increase right before a show.

Perhaps a promoter could benefit from postponing a show which he feels may be unprofitable considering the economy.

I would like to hear from makers, dealers, promoters, other show vendors and collectors as to your views.

Hope this thread generates interesting, informative and productive discussion and as usual, I thank you in advance for your opinions, views and participation.

 

[Bobby Branton]

I think promoters like The Guild Show and Blade show have to sign contracts at least a year in advance. I would think that Blade has to sign multiple year contracts to make sure they do not lose the venue. It would cost them dearly to cancel on short notice.
BB

 

[Kevin Jones]

I think promoters like The Guild Show and Blade show have to sign contracts at least a year in advance. I would think that Blade has to sign multiple year contracts to make sure they do not lose the venue. It would cost them dearly to cancel on short notice.
BB

You are certainly correct Bobby, as you say they sign multi-year contracts with stiff cancellation penalties. I was more addressing the small to medium regional shows rather than the BIG boys.
I edited my original post to reflect that.

 

[Lorien]

I couldn't help but think that there were other reasons why the Spirit of Steel show was postponed, although the reason given was reason enough.

This economy makes these times very bad for over extending one's self. It is much safer, and probably better, to be cautious and keep the risk to the minimum given the uncertainties facing the economies we depend on.

The economy also provides opportunities, I think, especially for the new guard. If costs can be kept down, and interest can be maintained inexpensively, (ie; the intranets) then perhaps there will be new room for those who haven't been 'in the scene' for as long to make a go of it.

I think it would be interesting to look back on the historical and economic realities that the large shows faced while they were still in their infancy.

 

[silenthunterstudios]

I've only been to two TRUE knife shows, both in MD. One is a little hole in the wall, the Frederick Knife Show. The other is the Chesapeake Knife Show, a lot bigger and with more names and vendors. I personally enjoy attending both. I know the promoter of one show, the other somewhat, and have gotten no inklings that there won't be another one. One maker told me he probably wasn't going to attend the Frederick show anymore. A couple vendors love it there. Attendance wasn't as bad as I thought it would be at this years Chesapeake show.

 

[Les Robertson]

Hi Lorien,

I couldn't help but think that there were other reasons why the Spirit of Steel show was postponed, although the reason given was reason enough.

I would submit to you that you have no idea what you are talking about. Have you ever been to the SOS Show? I have been to all nine and had plans for the 10th.

Bruce is exceptionally family oriented and very loyal to those around him. His children and grand children would always trump a knife show. Enough said.

Hi Kevin,

To my knowledge the only show that has been added in the last 2 years was AG's show.

The show in Santa Barbara is the show that replaced the Solvang Show.

The ABS Show has moved from January to August. The Guild Show moved from July to September.

So there is a shuffling of shows. It will be interesting to see if so many shows between the end of July and Mid-October will hurt each other.

For the 25 years that I have been attending custom knives shows one thing has always remained constant:

1) Some makers sell out

2) Some makers sell some

3) Some makers sell none.

This is good economic times and bad economic times.

I would submit that in slow or poor economic times that more shows may help rather than hurt. This would allow more makers and collectors to attend shows and keep travel expenses to a minimum.

I attended the ECCKS show in NY last month. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but attendance seemed about the same as the 2008 show. The difference for me was in 2008 I sold 2 knives and in 2009 I sold 13.

This year I made a concerted effort to talk with more collectors before the show and modified my "product mix" for the show. I attribute this to the increase in sales.

I would suspect that more people will buy via the Internet this year. I have several clients who are not traveling from Europe this year due to the value of the Euro to the US Dollar. They are instead giving me "shopping" lists for the Blade Show. While they will miss out on the show, the money saved in travel will allow them to pick up an extra knife or three.

As well many people I talked to have and will forgo other shows and travel to the Blade Show in stead. As has been discussed here on this forum before the Blade Show is no longer a "Show" it is now an "Event."

So as in the past, the Santa Barbara Show and Blade show will feature the following:

1) Some makers sell out

2) Some makers sell some

3) Some makers sell none.

The intell to be gleaned from these shows is:

Who only sold a few, which ones? Why didn't the other sell?

Who didn't sell any knives...and why?

I didn't have a table at the Little Rock Show this year, so I had time to walk around the room and check prices, materials and designs. Then making notes on which knives would still be available at the end of Saturday. Almost without exception, the knives were still on the makers tables.

The reasons were fairly obvious. The primary reason was conducting business this year as they had the past couple of years.

Misery loves company and this years "NO SALES MANTRA" will be..."The economy is horrible"

If this is the case why are some makers still selling out at every show and some are almost selling out. The answer(s) to this/these questions will eliminate the "economy blues."

Pre-Show marketing, Product Mix and value pricing will go a long way to eliminating.."the no sales because of the economy blues."

 

[sheathmaker]

Kevin, thanks (sincere) for another really good thread. This one will really be interesting to read, as I don't have a clue about intelligent input other than my gut feeling.

Paul

 

[Lorien]

Hi Lorien,

I would submit to you that you have no idea what you are talking about. Have you ever been to the SOS Show? I have been to all nine and had plans for the 10th.

Bruce is exceptionally family oriented and very loyal to those around him. His children and grand children would always trump a knife show. Enough said.

I was trying to say that I couldn't help but think that the economy might have played some role in the decision to postpone the show. It was my first gut instinct, which I probably should have kept to myself.

I didn't intend to downplay the stated reason for postponing it, but there are often multiple reasons which can come into play when coming to a decision, even if one is reason enough.

Bruce, please accept my apology if you construed that what I said as questioning your integrity. That was the furthest thing from my mind.
:foot::foot::foot:

 

[Les Robertson]

Hi Lorien,

It seems that when someone, something or some business is struggling...people (read US Press) is quick to point out it must be because of the Economy.

Generally when a downturn in the US economy occurs, more knife makers show up. This is largely the reason for the increase in knife shows over the past 10 years.

This started after the "Tech Bubble" burst and companies downsized. The after 9/11 the economy took another hit and more companies downsized. Some of these people seized the opportunity to become knife makers.

Bruce was trying to create a knife related event in Fontana NC. to be held this coming April. Bruce pulled the plug on the show. The email he sent me was extremely lengthy with the reasons why he had to do this.

In that same email he let me know that there might be a chance the SOS Show would be moved from the July date because of the birth of his second grandchild.

My point is that if there were other reasons Bruce would have enumerated them.

Personally, I am hoping to see the show go back to early September. While July in 2008 was a very strong sales month for me...that is not usually the case.

 

[Kevin Jones]

Hi Lorien,

Hi Kevin,

To my knowledge the only show that has been added in the last 2 years was AG's show.

The show in Santa Barbara is the show that replaced the Solvang Show.

The ABS Show has moved from January to August. The Guild Show moved from July to September.

So there is a shuffling of shows. It will be interesting to see if so many shows between the end of July and Mid-October will hurt each other.

Off hand, there's the new show in Mass. that will run on opposite years of the AKI, I believe there's a new show in Pomona in October and we are up to six maker micro shows now. Though the number of collectors attending these micro shows (12-35 collectors at each) is not significant, the money spent on custom knives by these seasoned collectors is very significant.

I agree, it will be interesting to see if the July-October shows will hurt each other. Right now I planning on going to five shows between BLADE and October. It will be the most shows I have attended in a single year.

Kevin, thanks (sincere) for another really good thread. This one will really be interesting to read, as I don't have a clue about intelligent input other than my gut feeling.

Paul

You're welcome Paul.
I believe "gut feeling" provides the most intelligent input at times. Especially when coming from someone with as much "life experience" as you.

 

[Will Leavitt]

I haven't done a full fledged knife show yet. I plan on doing Blade in 2010 providing I get a table. The economy is what it is and there's some people making fortunes and there's some people losing fortunes. I'm guessing a lot of people losing at the upper end are people that couldn't adapt. Don't kill me about this, I'm just a Japanese redneck that works for a Korean car company, and that's my lowbrow feeling about what's going on.

I bow to Les' experience on what's selling or not selling.

I know people are sick of seeing my simple knives, they wonder why in the hell don't I sell some complicated knives? My analysis of the market says that I need to make and hopefully simple, inexpensive knives that will help feed people's custom knife "jones". When you're hungry but don't have time for a full meal a snack comes in handy to quell those pains. My model is to make "snack" knives that help feed the need but to also introduce my work to people. I think a huge part of a custom knife is the relationship you forge with the maker during the creation of your knife. I strive to really build a relationship with anyone that chooses me to make their knife. I feel that during times like this customer service or whatever you want to call that relationship between maker and buyer is tantamount to surviving and perhaps prospering. When times were flush makers could afford to be somewhat short and snippy with buyers, now those makers are falling by the wayside as people are falling back to their relationships.

Well those are the non-design issues that I think are important for makers, design issues, well ummm I can't help people with that.... I draw and draw and draw, then I show them to the wife and she tells me they suck and suck and suck and ohhh that's cute. That's the one I make. Y'all can't have my wife to help you.

 

[Les Robertson]

Hi Kevin,

I had heard about Paul Shindler trying to put a show on in Boston, but didn't know it was a go. So that will be this year then.

Pomona in CA, should be interesting as it will be competing with Dan Delevans show this year in October and AKI next year.

Hadn't heard about another show in MA. Is this Paul's show mentioned above? Is it a custom show or like most of the shows in NE mostly factory with some custom.

As more people lose their jobs more people become makers and some collectors decide to try their hand at being dealers.....and so it goes.

 

[Les Robertson]

Hi Will,

You have to make what you know or think you know will sell. For new makers a big mistake they make is over charging for their knives. One objective for a new maker should be to get as many of your knives into the hands of as many collectors as possible.

Initially this is done by offering a good knife a better than fair price.

There are a lot of knife experts out there

You have to do what is best for your business.

 

[Will Leavitt]

Hiya Les,
Something that has been lost in the makers community is "paying your dues" .... I don't know if it's something we're forgetting to teach them or they're ignoring us when we say it.

I'm often astounded at the prices on new maker's knives and spend a lot of time wondering about my pricing but in the end I'm happy with what I made, was paid and hope my customers feel that they got a "good value" with their W. Leavitt knife.

 

[JParanee]

I think that in times like this ya just have to work more for less money but thats life. I know I am regularly putting in 13 hour days and not making what I was working half that amount of time. The old saying the band must go on applies to the shows I think. People are still going and some guy's are still selling out but everyone has to keep plodding on ... Interesting thread Kevin

 

[John T Wylie Jr]

Hi Will,

You have to make what you know or think you know will sell. For new makers a big mistake they make is over charging for their knives. One objective for a new maker should be to get as many of your knives into the hands of as many collectors as possible.

Initially this is done by offering a good knife a better than fair price.

There are a lot of knife experts out there

You have to do what is best for your business.

That's some darn good info right there , that every new maker should take heed of. Don't get too big too fast !

 

[Les Robertson]

Hi Will,

Check out the second part of my 3 part article in Blade on what makes custom knives appreciate in value. It will probably answer you question.

If not, pick up a copy of Knives 2009 and Knives 1999 and compare the makers who are in the 1999 Knives and those who are still in the Knives 2009....all those makers that aren't in the Knives 2009...didn't die.

Generally, the market determines who is around for 10 years or more.

 

[B . Buxton]

I don't think knife shows are a good judge for the knife sales vs. economy.
I've seen to many makers come to shows with only 1 or 2 knives and several come with a couple knives that are already sold and being picked up at that show. Most of these makers claim they sold out or had a great show because their deliveries were made.
Sure there's exceptions and several knives are sold at some knife shows but many knife shows in my opinion are a poor place to sell knives, when you think about it, knife shows are a BUNCH of competitors all competing for a very small group of people wanting to buy just a few knives.
Knife shows on the other hand are great ways to meet the public and let them see your work first hand, if they buy or not. I personally never do good at shows but I love doing them, so I'll keep doing them. I did the St. Louis show, the PKA show in Denver, and the SOS show last year and only sold 1 knife total, but as soon as I came home I sold most of the knives I had taken to each show with in 2 weeks after advertising them on my web site. This year I took 9 knives to the Arkansas show and sold 1, but now I only have 2 of them left. For me, knife shows are a great place to see and make friends and a MUST, to show the public what you make and who you are, but if I sell a knife at a show, I feel really fortunate that 1 of my knives was picked out of the hundreds/thousands that were there to be picked from.

Bill

 

[Don Hanson III]

Bill B. makes some very good points, like bringing 1 or 2 knives and/or deliveries, then
walk around with their chest all bowed out, lol.

And like he said, shows aren't the best indication of how the knife economy is doing. I
talked to one dealer at a big show, asked how the show was, he said ''Great'', said he
had not sold a knife, but had bought 25.

Kevin, postponing a show during these times would not help at all.

Good thread!

 

[stephanfowler]

I decided long ago that I WILL have a great show this year at Blade

It's my first year with a table, I'll have 5-10 knives with me, and whether or not I sell a single knife I WILL have a great show.

It's a matter of attitude and perspective.

I really hope to sell knives, heck, I want to sell all of them. But the REAL point for me going to the show is to meet people, talk about knives with some of the best collectors, makers, and enthusiasts in the world. And hopefully make some new friends.

The sales are a byproduct of the relationship.