Knife Soul?

S

SID

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Jul 1, 1999
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A very wise man once mentioned his disillusionment with a line of quality knives because they lacked "soul". In awe of his deep intelect, I said nothing, but I have pondered on that for some time, and would like opinions on what you might think this knife aficionado might have been refering to with this "knife with no soul" comment.

Thanks
 
Warning: The below is MY OPINION. You are welcome to disagree, reflect upon, bash, flame at your leisure.

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An automatic (mechanical) watch has a soul; it is often said that quartz watches do not.

Leicas have soul. Hassys have lots of soul. Bronicas most certainly do not (that's why they're half the price of the Hassy... your extra $2000 buys you a soul, as well as brand recognition ;) hehhehe )

Doc Marts have a soul.

Hugo BOSS suits have a soul.

Dunkin' Donuts have soul (but this brings up some sort of ethical/epistemelogical question: is it ethical to eat something that has a soul? what happens to the soul? in fact, is this a very good reason why religions/beliefs have posited that animals do not have souls, to the great disbelief of animal lovers worldwide?)

Being cynical, I'd say anything that markets itself as being exclusive, expensive, rare, difficult to make... thinks of itself as having one. And perhaps many people believe that, as marketing and media folk are glad to hear.

To be honest, I find that many things that are less expensive, but have market differentiators, superlative design and manufacture, solid customer service or design philosophy all make me "click" with brands/items, and thus might give me pause to think "my, this has soul."

Take the standing-up stapler... I'd say they have more soul than a regular office swingline.

Then again, this is a VERY subjective thing.

If you connect with an item/person/food/dingleberry, then I would propose that to you, it does, in fact, have a soul. What does this mean?

I am more willing to sell/part with items/brands that I don't connect with (think has a soul).

I like my small classic Sebbie dearly, but, (and I'm sure to the great horror and consternation of knife knuts EVERYWHERE) I feel my Emerson Mini-Commander has more soul (it's more ergonomic and feels better. It doesn't cut as well, it doesn't lock as well, it isn't as pretty but it's got a je ne sais quoi about it fitting my hand much better, and hence is my EDC.)

For every one of me, I'd wager there are a 1000 out there who would feel the Mini-Commander is soul-less (arguable since it is "tactical" and "generic" and has less effort imparted in it due to its lower quality of manufacture) and the Sebbie is Da Bomb.

For every WIS that loves the auto movement, with its ticking heart, there are a 1000 people who think I'm insane for wearing an inaccurate watch that I have to WIND ("my God, Jon, are you freeking on crack? Why do you keep winding that damn thing every night???")

For that matter, is it justifiable to say that custom/handmade knives have "more soul" than production models, since one was made with "more love and care, sweat, blood, grime" than the production knife? Since the production knife was cut on a CNC mill, or with a waterjet, rather than with files?

I don't know if it's justifiable.

What about a handmade Chinese knife, compared to a cheap US knockoff?

Which has more soul?

Now that you thought of that one... try this:

What about a handmade Chinese knife, made by prison labour, compared to a CNC-milled US knockoff?

Hrm.

Does that count as an EVIL soul? :eek:

Good question, good discussions (I hope), no real answer.

Hope I haven't insulted TOO many knife knuts ;)

----

Now for something completely different:

(a) Vampires have no souls.

(b) Vampires draw blood for pleasure.

(c) Knives draw blood for pleasure.

(b+c=d) Knives are vampires.

(d+a=e) Knives have no souls.

There's your answer. That man is right because NO knife has a soul.

:D

-Jon
 
As an architect and industrial designer I think I can relate to this idea of products with ”soul”, in this case knives.

Some products spring from a real need and contains truly original ideas regarding the shape, form and function. A deep understanding of mate-rials and production methods combined with a love of the subject on the side of the designer can some times result in a product with soul.

I think it has something to do with the user being able to sense the feelings and intentions of the designer behind the product. Most will agree that a Ferrari has more soul than your average Toyota. The same goes for architecture – a building can just be a place with walls to keep out the wind and a roof to keep out the rain, but it can also be a place that gives you an almost metaphysical experience of space and light and mood.

A design with soul sometimes happens when art and technology comes together and becomes something else, when everybody involved work together to create the very best they can.

That is my take on your question – I hope I makes some kind of sense.


Regards Jan
 
I think it's a crock...that's the short answer.

Knives are inanimate objects, and they don't have a soul or anything even close.

I too have heard people try to claim that some material possession or other has a 'soul', and it's silly. My opininion is that these people like to, intentionally or not, artificially inflate the worth of material possessions, and one way to do so is to claim that said possession has a soul. Same thing with Antiques or any other collectible.

Sure, some knives just 'grab me', and I really want to own one, but it should be quite obvious that you can't own something that has a soul. Not having a soul is what defines an object as a mere material possession.

If claiming that your knives have soul makes you feel better about them, or makes them more worthy to you or others, that's great, but saying they do does not make it true.
 
Mikemck,

Do animals have a soul? What about bugs?

What about (gulp) people who are in comas, or worse, are brain dead?

I'm not sure if I agree (respectfully) with the idea that if something "has a soul", you can't "own" it.

Does that mean:
1- "If item X has a soul, it is by definition impossible to own"
2- "If item X cannot be owned, it must therefore have a soul"
3- "If item X has consciousness/self-actualization, it must therefore have a soul and cannot be owned"

... and on and on :o

Why do you propose that saying something doesn't make it true?

If it's impossible to identify and determine the presence or absence of a soul, then how is it possible to define its presence or absence by saying that something doesn't? (Umm....did that make sense?)

I guess we're getting into semantics and religion here, which by its very nature is the basis of belief, and shouldn't be debated within the framework of human thought (or so it's argued ;) )

JanP:
You hit on something I rambled about before: Something seems to 'have a soul' if the user can ascertain and "feel" the design philosophy of the creator, in the usage/handling. If there is/was in fact a specific design philosphy goal, and that it is so well designed as to be communicable, then it has "soul" to that individual.

The counterpoint perhaps would be to suggest that items that are SO well designed that their design philosophy is NOT apparent might be even better designed -- such that it is unnoticable.

This is the case with interface design: it is good to design something where people can use it easily and notice that it is easy to use. It is better to design something such that the person using it finds it easy to use, and does NOT notice that it is easy to use.

Good thoughts.

Thanks! :D

-Jon
 
I think the idea of a knife having a soul is how a person interprets it. No I don't knink a knife really has a soul.What I might call soul would be more like when I picking up a variety of knives. Some feel cool in the hand due to the material. Others don't have a shape that is very friendly to the hand. Then there is the chosen few that makes you ponder spending obsene ammounts of money. You ponder what makes knife A better than knife B, but can't come up with an answer at least according to the specs. For the lack of wanting to use a word like preference. Some people (me too on occasion) might say the knife has character or soul

my .02 cents and some pocket lint

:)

Have a knife day
 
When blood and sweat goes into the making; maybe one can see a reflection of the makers soul in the object.


Maybe the Japanese are right about weapons having souls. In the USMC I have handled different M-16's. Some I could "bond" with some I could not. Like people, some you "bond" with just because, some you never bond with, again just because. Maybe it is the compatable souls that draws you to it?
 
I agree about the watch thing...I like autos. Further, my quest has always been to find a knife for each task I have that "speaks" to me. Some however begin jabbering away but grow increasingly silent once they have been home awhile...others like my stag/BG42 PKCS Buck 110 or my RMJ forge 'hawk still whisper to me every time I need to hit the hunting trail...

I don't know if it's soul, but there is something about a handmade object that performs its task as good or better than anything that can be stamped out by a machine...

Anyway, that's my .02
 
To Mikemck, I feel the exact other way and I'd like to explain.

I rode Harleys for 25 years. I did have some 'go-fasters,' a Kawasaki 903 LTD and a Honda CBX. I liked Sportsters for their reduced weight, but I favored the shovelheads for their highway manners. One of my respected friends bought a Goldwing and raved about it. Truth be told, I was spending way too much time fixing oil leaks, tightening bolts and paying huge prices for accessories. I bought a 1980 Goldwing.

The thing ran and ran. I never got tired. It never leaked. Things fit. Parts were economical. The oil filter was right on the front of the engine case. Sometimes, and I mean sometimes, on a hot day the fan came on.

But every time a Harley went by I felt jealous. So I sold the Goldwing and bought a 1000 cc Sportster, just for fun. I think it was a new Evolution model. No, it didn't leak, but it shook like the dickens when I got her up on cam.

I remember the Sportster, but I cannot even tell you what COLOR the Goldwing was. I think that's the definition of soul.
 
IMO, an object has whatever 'soul' you put into it. I guess I relate 'soul' to what you would call 'sentimental value.' My beaters, therefore, have more soul than do some of my knives that get used less.

My friend and I have matching BM940BT knives, but you can just tell whose is whose.

I think that anyone who handles an item for any extended period of time can put something in to it. On some objects, you can really feel this: especially child-hood objects like teddy-bears.

This all brings up the USMC rifle creed to me (which I've clipped parts from):

"This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
My rifle is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life.
My rifle, without me is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless...

My rifle is human, even as I, because it is my life. Thus, I will learn it as a brother. I will learn its
weaknesses, its strength...

We will become part of each other..."
 
Take a bar of steel... just a flat, grey, ugly as sin bar of steel... cut it... shape it... grind it... polish it... temper it... put a handle on it... put a final edge on it... make a sheath for it...
In the process literally sweating, bleading, and sometimes crying onto the blade, burning your fingers of friction heated metal, and managing to injure yourself in ways most ppl couldnt imagine... and tell me that knife doesnt have a SOUL!

Buy that knife, and hold it in your hand, and close your eyes, and visualize the work that went into it, all in one persons hands... and tell me it doesnt have SOUL.

Hell, if you wanna get down to the Bio-Soul of it all, the knife is made up of billions upon billions of tiny particles of matter, which as far as I'm concerned are just as alive as you and me... I mean, afterall, we too are made up of the same particles... so it the steel, and the wood, or micarta.
And we have no way of knowing if they have a soul or not, do we? They are alive afterall... so its logical that they have a soul just like the rest of the living beings on the planet.

Or here's one more...
Be at a gun show, and see a beautiful, wonderful condition, Nazi-SS dress dagger, and ask to see it, and when you pick it up, feel something that can only be described as evil, crawl up your arm, like something so cold it burns, and and start to crawl all over your body... feel it choke off your breath, and make your heart skip, then try to hammer itself to death, feel it make you shake so bad you almost drop the knife... and careful as you can lay the knife down, and resist the urge to run the f*ck away, as fast as you can, as you feel that feeling of evil release its grasp, and go slipping and scream off of you and out of you.
Tell me that knife didnt have a soul... I say it did, evil as sh*t!! But a soul none the less... I felt the damn thing, and that knife has a dark, dark, soul to it.


Or soul could be defined simply as presence, a knife that just grabs your eye, fits into your hand perfectly, and sings for you in the air... you could say it has a type of soul, not real, but you just like it sooo much, it has its own special quality to you, that oyu might call soul.
 
Hmmm...while this sounds strage to say: "Satin, I like how you think..." (and with a name like Satin, he should know all about souls...) ;)
 
I always feel carbon steel knives to have more "soul" than stainless steel ones. They need caring and grooming, otherwise they age faster and can even die. My stainless knives are good tools too, but I feel less connection with them.
 
I've always been dubious of people when they say an object has a soul or special magic about it. This implies that something can be more than the sum of it's parts, which I have found to be impossible. Making a quasi-religious item out of a consumer product is incomprehensible to me.

For example, I enjoy my car. I have spent a lot of time and energy working on it, and I am proud of the results. Despite that, I would never say that "I love my car", because I know that it is just $50 worth of steel and plastic arranged in a particular way to make it mobile, thereby greatly increasng the value. If somebody was to offer to buy it for more than it's worth I would sell it in a heartbeat and buy a new one.

The opposite to this is my friend. He has a classic Camaro that he lavishes attention on and plans to keep forever. It is expensve, leaks when it rains, and breaks down if you look at it funny. The parts are insanely expensive, and it is actually pretty slow by modern standards. He always says he wouldn't sell it for a million dollars, and I believe him.

Just two different ways of seeing things I guess.

I feel the same way about a knife. Nothing magical about it, just a blade, 2 handle slabs, and some screws. Like a hammer or a chainsaw, a tool to help you get things done. The fact that somebody made it by hand isn't particularly impressive to me unless the performance increases with the price.
 
Soul applied to material objects (I'll get into the animal/soul debate if anyone wants, but this doesn't seem the place since that's not BFC's purpose) is just a metaphor for the thought, work, sweat, etc. that goes into making the object. Custom knives always have such thought behind them. Production knives perhaps less so, but they can still have metaphorical soul. Maybe the fabrication process is "soul-less", but that isn't necessarily true of the design and engineering that went into the product before the first prototypes rolled off the line...
 
satin,

You and I are on the same page, buddy. That's what I was trying to say about feeling 'soul' in a knife that you pick up. You put it into much better words than myself, however. Like I said, the best 'energy' I've ever felt in an object has been in teddy-bears and the such: items that have been loved since the day they were claimed by their tiny little owners. I totally hear you on the other side of the spectrum, however. I've picked up items and felt a deep evil in them.
 
Are we making a distinction between the phrases,

"This knife has a soul"
and
"This knife has soul"

?

tallwingedgoat,
Odd how this is -- this sort of granting of "better" (souled) status to things that need taking care of -- like mechanical watches. Hmprf.

fishbulb,
What if you had a knife/tool/gun that you used to save your life? Would you be more/less willing to part with it? What if it saved your life over the period of a few years, or the usage/presentation of it sparked a conversation that allowed you to meet your significant other?

Sentimental value could be defined as either the owner's or a third party's observation?

matthew,
That's another question I was thinking up. If someone says a handmade knife has "soul", what about a collaboration where the maker's thinking went into the design, but a machine made it? Does it have less soul? And yes, sorry for digressing into all the standard questions. ;)

Anthony,
What about something that started out a Microtech but had some custom work done to it such that it was no longer recognizable as a Microtech?
 
If you love it, it's got soul. If you love it and the designer loved it, it's got soul. If you love it and the maker whose hand actually crafted it and brought it to life loved it, it's got SOUL baby.
 
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