Several recent threads have dealt with the definition of "custom" knives, and Les has been helpful in identifying the history of that category. Les or anyone else, could you continue the thought process and identify the other categories (large factory, small factory, overseas junk, semi-custom or whatever) and give us some examples of makers in those categories. I think this will help us make proper decisions in the future and obtain a better idea of who is "custom" and who is not. Thanks is advance.
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Knifemaker Categories
- Thread starter Les Robertson
- Start date
Les Robertson
BANNED
- Joined
- Oct 10, 1998
- Messages
- 3,565
Hi Bruce,
Your just a real trouble maker arent you! <G>. You are going to have to stop using the "F" word here (Factory). No large factories, no small factories, nada!
I think we would all be better served to discuss construction techniques, machines and men and how the work is done.
We can use catagories such as Stock Removal and Forging for example. Both have pros and cons. Both use new machinery (sometimes old in the case of trip hammers) that used to do the work of the hand or non-electric tools and/or machines.
Laser cutting, Water Jet cutting, CNC machine, Band Saw and Hack Saw. What do they all have in common? The can all produce approximately the same blade blank for the maker to start with. The main advantages to the first three is that the maker does not have to hold his hand on the machine. Also, the blank takes less time to profile and grind as it is closer to the dimensions of the finished blade. These machines and methods of cutting allow the maker to lower their prices and produce more knives each year, as these machines and procedures save the maker time.
Case in point. Warren Osborne a very fine knife maker produces a tactical folder called the Silver Tip. One he does all the work by hand the other the parts are laser cut. The difference is about $125 in price. He does mark the laser cut knives with LT under his logo. If you put the two side by side and took the LT off, very few of you, if any could tell the diffence. With this in mind, how many of you would prefer to pay the extra money? I dont see a lot of hands going up!
This is just one example. However, I thought this was a good one to start off with.
------------------
Les Robertson
Robertson's Custom Cutlery
http://www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com/rcc/makers.shtml
It is easier to get things done with a kind word and a knife, than with a kind word alone!
Your just a real trouble maker arent you! <G>. You are going to have to stop using the "F" word here (Factory). No large factories, no small factories, nada!
I think we would all be better served to discuss construction techniques, machines and men and how the work is done.
We can use catagories such as Stock Removal and Forging for example. Both have pros and cons. Both use new machinery (sometimes old in the case of trip hammers) that used to do the work of the hand or non-electric tools and/or machines.
Laser cutting, Water Jet cutting, CNC machine, Band Saw and Hack Saw. What do they all have in common? The can all produce approximately the same blade blank for the maker to start with. The main advantages to the first three is that the maker does not have to hold his hand on the machine. Also, the blank takes less time to profile and grind as it is closer to the dimensions of the finished blade. These machines and methods of cutting allow the maker to lower their prices and produce more knives each year, as these machines and procedures save the maker time.
Case in point. Warren Osborne a very fine knife maker produces a tactical folder called the Silver Tip. One he does all the work by hand the other the parts are laser cut. The difference is about $125 in price. He does mark the laser cut knives with LT under his logo. If you put the two side by side and took the LT off, very few of you, if any could tell the diffence. With this in mind, how many of you would prefer to pay the extra money? I dont see a lot of hands going up!
This is just one example. However, I thought this was a good one to start off with.
------------------
Les Robertson
Robertson's Custom Cutlery
http://www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com/rcc/makers.shtml
It is easier to get things done with a kind word and a knife, than with a kind word alone!
Les, I guess if you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Guess what, there are people out there making knives in "FACTORIES!" Just kidding, big guy! I think what you are trying to say is that you would rather not talk about "OTC's (other than custom's) on this forum. That's fine--it's your football and you can kick it any way you want. I was just trying to understand a definition of "customs" by comparing this category to other categories. I'll take you off the hook and take it to the general knife forum. No, no! Don't try to talk me out of it! I don't mind the inconvenience. I'll still read your forum, and I'll probably still like it.
Les Robertson
BANNED
- Joined
- Oct 10, 1998
- Messages
- 3,565
Hi Bruce,
Thanks for letting off the hook. I volunteered to moderate this forum, because I think I have some unique qualifications in regards to this forum.
I have heard rumors that there are factories producing knives. I personally havent bought a factory knife in over 10 years. So Ive kinda lost touch with that part of the market.
If you read my "Thoughts on Custom Knives" post. I think it will answer your question about what is custom and what is not.
First hint, if it comes from a factory..Its not custom knife.
Second hint, if the name of the man or woman who made the knife is not actually making the knife its not a custom knife.
Third hint, if the knife is made by craftsmen working for the designer, i.e. Reeve. Then the knife is handmade. However, the knife is handmade, but in collectable circles the knife is not considered a "custom knife". To further confuse this. Scott Cook who is the primary grinder for Reeve and who is an excellent knifemaker. When he makes a knife and puts his name on it, it is then onsidered a custom knife.
Bruce, I understand this can be confusing. I think that most know the difference with the exception of a few knives from maker/knifemakers.
Jerry Busse comes to mind, another excellent maker. To his credit he has made a big seperation in his business. Busse Combat Knives range in price from $250 - $600. His custom knives start at $1,000+. Obviously, he knows the difference between factory and custom and has made it very easy for all of us to understand this.
I hope this starts to put some light into the "gray" area.
BTW, I read all the other forums and will look for your future threads. I hope you will continue to ask questions here as well.
I think we all learn from the exchange of information.
------------------
Les Robertson
Robertson's Custom Cutlery
http://www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com/rcc/makers.shtml
It is easier to get things done with a kind word and a knife, than with a kind word alone!
Thanks for letting off the hook. I volunteered to moderate this forum, because I think I have some unique qualifications in regards to this forum.
I have heard rumors that there are factories producing knives. I personally havent bought a factory knife in over 10 years. So Ive kinda lost touch with that part of the market.
If you read my "Thoughts on Custom Knives" post. I think it will answer your question about what is custom and what is not.
First hint, if it comes from a factory..Its not custom knife.
Second hint, if the name of the man or woman who made the knife is not actually making the knife its not a custom knife.
Third hint, if the knife is made by craftsmen working for the designer, i.e. Reeve. Then the knife is handmade. However, the knife is handmade, but in collectable circles the knife is not considered a "custom knife". To further confuse this. Scott Cook who is the primary grinder for Reeve and who is an excellent knifemaker. When he makes a knife and puts his name on it, it is then onsidered a custom knife.
Bruce, I understand this can be confusing. I think that most know the difference with the exception of a few knives from maker/knifemakers.
Jerry Busse comes to mind, another excellent maker. To his credit he has made a big seperation in his business. Busse Combat Knives range in price from $250 - $600. His custom knives start at $1,000+. Obviously, he knows the difference between factory and custom and has made it very easy for all of us to understand this.
I hope this starts to put some light into the "gray" area.
BTW, I read all the other forums and will look for your future threads. I hope you will continue to ask questions here as well.
I think we all learn from the exchange of information.
------------------
Les Robertson
Robertson's Custom Cutlery
http://www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com/rcc/makers.shtml
It is easier to get things done with a kind word and a knife, than with a kind word alone!
Thanks Les. I was also interested in your "what is not" category because it was confusing. You've helped a bunch. I put a thread on the General Knife Forum and gotten a good response that, when combined with your input good perspective on this subject. I realize when you deal in a product, everything else is a competitor for the same discretionary money. At the risk of seeming persistent (read pushy) I've gotten a good feel for the concept. Thanks again!