KNIFEMAKERS! How long does it take?

Elvislives

Elvislives

Gold Member
Joined
Dec 13, 1999
Messages
3,034
My original post was:

"A question for the many great knifemakers here at bf.c (are your posteriors sufficiently kiss'd?
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)

If you made 1 of your most popular knife from beginning to end (I figure you do them in batches, but let's just say...) how long would it take?

basic materials to assembly and final fitting. What, a couple of hours????
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Brandon"

However there is another thread in which I'm accused of being a troll. So, here I paraphrase:

Knifemakers:

It would appear from all of the discussion as to the cost of particular knives being unreasonable, that a great number of people here at BF.C do not realize how many hours you put into a quality piece. If it is not to intrusive into your personal life, would you mind sharing with us an estimation of how long it would take to make a one-off of your most popular knife? If my thinking is reasonable, it would seem that people here will be quite surprised to find that although many knives fetch a healthy price, the hours that go into that knife make knife making as a career seem insane.

Respectfully,

Brandon

Bastids!

[This message has been edited by Elvislives (edited 05-20-2001).]
 
Some knives are budgeted to complete in about an hour, some are budgeted to take a dozen hours or more. However, if the knife isn't coming together properly a knifemaker will take whatever time necessary to get it right, if he values his reputation.

Knives with plain handles are least complicated, bolsters are next, slotted half guards are next and full pierced guards take the longest time. Carving, engraving, and scrimshaw cannot be estimated because these are works of art.

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george
www.tichbourneknives.com
sales@tichbourneknives.com


 
I don't really know. I just like to do them and when your having fun, the time just flies.
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. As a matter of fact I have done so much with so little for so long that I can do about anything in no time flat. But then there are those that say that only my shadow moves and have attempted to put a couple of coppers on the lids until they detected my breathing
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.

Seriously, it only takes about an hour to shapen a piece of steel and put a handle on it. Most people want a little more than that, so it takes longer to make them like they want them. The more time you put into it, the more you have to charge for it (unless your the wifes kinfolks)
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.

I think a lot of people have the "how much are you making off that one" attitude instead of "is that a good value for the money asked".
Kind of like getting a great job for more money than you ever made and you are extremely happy until you find out the person next to you and doing the same thing is making twice as much as you are. Don't ask me why on that one either.

If you were to attempt or make a knife from just some old steel, it would increase your understanding of the process. I do wish there was some way of answering your question, but there is no exact answer.
Have a good day.

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Ray Kirk
http://www.tah-usa.net/raker

[This message has been edited by raker (edited 05-19-2001).]
 
troublemaker
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How dare you come into our forum and question those who sweat make to the knives we love.
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you atheistic heathen, you HERETIC
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An ole timer once told me he can do a Plain Jane folder in about 15-20 hours from scratch with about 30 years experience.
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I would't consider myself a great knifemaker by any stretch, and I use mostly hand tools for my fixed blades (about 95% of the job is by hand), and I do each knife one at a time. Here's the breakdown for a typical fixed blade with a 2.5" blade and maybe 5.5" OAL:

Rough profiling- 20-30 minutes

Blade grinds with files- 1.5-2 hrs

Initial finish to 600 grit- 3+ hours

Quenching- 20 minutes

Second finish- 15 minutes

Temper- 3 cycles of 60 minutes each +
cooling time.

Final finish- 15 minutes

Etch + steel wool rub- 30 minutes

Drilling handles- 20 minutes

Gluing handles- 20 minutes

Finishing handles- 1-3 hours

Sheath- 30 minutes minimum

So, the average small fixed blades takes me a LONG time to make, and I actually do things pretty quickly. I may be overestimating slightly on some things, and obviously working with power tools and in batches speeds things up enormously.

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Dr. Steve Agocs
http://www.geocities.com/Chiro75/frames.html


agocs_s@hotmail.com
 
An accomplished knifemaker, working by himself, with the proper tools, should be able to complete a knife a day. However, this is not start to finish, as heat treating, expoxy set up, etc must be taken into account. I grind approx 20-30 blades for heat treat at a time.....It takes me at least one hour each....longer for bigger and/or complicated grinds....a LOT longer for big bowies, fighters, and machetes. So when I start on finishing a knife, it is already rough ground to 220 grit and heat treated.....I then have to take out ALL the machine marks and sanding scratches, make a guard, solder it on (a VERY time consuming process by the way)...clean it up...cut out the handle material....get it to fit PERFECTLY....drill it for pins, apply epoxy and allow to dry for 12 hours...grind handle and guard down to 600 grit finish....clean up everything, polish whatever needs to be polished....make a sheath.....put on my logo and steel type....sharpen....pack and ship. You figure it out.
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http://www.mayoknives.com
John 1:14
Love is Stronger than Death!
 
OK Tom..I figure couple hours, tops,,,and you want how much for that!!??.....

Yes, but,I throw in a bag of chocolate covererd macadamia nutz with each knife
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rather long winded with that last post Mr Mayo sir..........
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as iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another....Pr.27:17
David Buhrer

[This message has been edited by kawanin (edited 05-20-2001).]
 
"People forget how fast you did a job--
but they remember how well you did it."
Howard W. Newton

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Will Work 4 Knives
<A HREF="http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=254126&f=0" TARGET=_blank>
View
</A>
(To see my photos...click on the Logo)
 
Mac nuts are only for show(s)
and yes...I will keep it short from now on, just wanted to make a POINT (know pun intended!)
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What a new and unusual question!!!
Yeah, right.

I started a list of comments years ago, and the top of the list is that one. "How long does it take to make a knife?"

Most people are asking while hoping for a time block allotment, so they can do the math in their head and quickly come up with a figure of 4 dollars an hour, or 12, or 16, or 24 or 150.

Most are thinking: "I wonder how he makes a living at this?" and "could my nephew Randolph do this in his garage and make a buck?" or "how the hell does he justify a hundred dollars for a knife? After all, it's just a knife, isn't it?"

The reality of the cost of making does not present in just hours worked. Understand that there is over a hundred thousand dollars of equipment in the shop, and that investment was paid for one knife at a time. How many dollars in belts does a maker use in a year? In sandpaper, flex wheels, abrasives, diamond blades, silicon carbide grinding wheels, drill bits, taps, milling cutters, dressers, adhesives, electricity, and water? How about shipping, postage, advertising and travel? How about safety equipment, vacuum cleaner bags, building upkeep and maintenance? There's lighting, plumbing, heating and cooling. Somebody has to repair those tools, every single one of them because they don't run forever. How about books and research, photography, and professional fees and business licenses? There's phone fees, printing charges, and yes: internet service provider charges. And god forbid, if you should ever get hurt in your shop, you'll pay for that too!

We haven't even mentioned materials and supplies.

And you want to talk hours to produce? No one's ever asked me how long it takes to clean up the endless dust and debris, time shopping for the best and most magnificent materials, time spent talking to others about knifemaking, teaching novices, and discussing with other professionals how we might get group health insurance.

&#65279;And you want to talk hours to produce? No one's ever asked me how long it takes to clean up the endless dust and debris, time shopping for the best and most magnificent materials, time spent talking to others about knifemaking, teaching novices, and discussing with other professionals how we might get group health insurance.

It would be wonderful if someone would handle all this other stuff for me and I could just grind,fit, and finish.

Any volunteers?

Now hear this: YES, I could do it for less. But my clients expect professional results, not hobby craft. Otherwise, I wouldn't guarantee my workmanship for my lifetime, and THAT is what they pay for.



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Read, Study, Learn, Grow
-DO-
Jay
www.gilanet.com/JayFisher/index.htm
 
Jay,
i gotta agree. im just getting started,and never realized how much is involved. luckily i just got a belt grinder,some steel, and some other goodies (thanks,max) and ill probably have my forge running by saturday.

all of this is a big investment.
think about it..
steel
handle materials
bolster/guard material
belts
sandpaper
sweat and blood
any finishing chemicals you might have
everything involved in damascus
sweat and blood

plus- you cant get by with just one of each.most makers,to my limited knowledge, keep A LOT of this stuff on hand. the cost adds up,and quickly.

you cannot just assume that a knife is going to take a certain amount of time,either.
at newt livesays place an air compressor blew up a little while ago...dont you think that the explosion set them back a bit?

its not exactly a dollar worth of steel plus a dollar worth of wood or bone equals a 2 dollar knife.
 
The next question obviously is "How much do you make on this knife?"

If any knifemaker can answer this question for every knife on the table he is probably not telling the truth and nothing but the truth. Jay has given you a little of the business end of this industry, now the dreadful truth. The only time I can say how much any knife has cost me is at the end of my fiscal year when I add up my sales, expenses, inventory correction factor and other misc. costs and then I can only say what my average selling price and average per unit cost is.

This business is not like kicking out large volume widgets in two sizes with no optional extras. Most of the professional makers make a very wide range of product and will customize any of these to customer requirements. Each deviation from the norm costs time to learn new techniques or to apply seldom used techniques again and are not predictable so expecting a time for production is not reasonable.

For someone trying to research the industry with the idea of getting into the business, yes you can make a living at knifemaking if you have an alternative means of supporting yourself until you become a name maker,allow ten years or so.

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george
www.tichbourneknives.com
sales@tichbourneknives.com


 
Back in the mid 70's I was working for a sawmill and the big circular blade wasnt spinning right, it was determained that it had lost its dish and needed to be hammered. This old guy came to the mill and got a stand and anvil out and drew a spiderweb pattern on the blade with soapstone, then procedded to hammer here and there with a ball peen. About 2 hours later he said it was good to go so we stuck it back on, balanced it and went to sawing logs. He gave them a bill for $250 and the owner about crapped! He demanded an itemised bill so the ol guy wrote him another that said
Hammering 42" saw blade $50

Knowing how to hammer the
42" saw blade $200

Put that way the owner gladly paid and hung the bill on the wall for all to see. I think this story can apply to any skilled self employed specialist!
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Back in the mid 70's I was working for a sawmill and the big circular blade wasnt spinning right, it was determained that it had lost its dish and needed to be hammered. This old guy came to the mill and got a stand and anvil out and drew a spiderweb pattern on the blade with soapstone, then procedded to hammer here and there with a ball peen. About 2 hours later he said it was good to go so we stuck it back on, balanced it and went to sawing logs. He gave them a bill for $250 and the owner about crapped! He demanded an itemised bill so the ol guy wrote him another that said
Hammering 42" saw blade $50

Knowing how to hammer the
42" saw blade $200

Put that way the owner gladly paid and hung the bill on the wall for all to see. I think this story can apply to any skilled self employed specialist!
biggrin.gif
 
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