Knifemaking for Dummies

SSonnentag

SSonnentag

Stay Sharp!
Joined
Feb 25, 2009
Messages
2,165
Hey! I haven't seen that title in black and yellow yet! :)


Anyway, I was wondering if a few of you knifemakers could document the steps for making a knife. I'm curious as to the order certain things are done in. I assume a folder may be done a bit different from a fixed knife, so maybe two seperate lists. Any takers?

Example (fill in the missing numbers):

1) Draw up design on paper
.....
99) Deposit funds from sale into bank


:D

Thanks!
 
The stickies are full of what you're looking for. The steps are all there. What isn't there, is the tricks and the skill that comes from doing it over and over. All the information earned through trial and error. I just learned that first hand.
 
There ARE some gaps in the information. For example, none of the stickies tell you how to get a tax ID number and open a business bank account. None of them tell you about the things you can deduct when running the business.

But they do tell you how to make a knife that could potentially be sold.

And they do tell you where to buy supplies and services.

And you can get a solid education on metalurgy (or at least the specifics pertaining to steel).

As for it being tuned for dummies... I will not comment.
 
OK, I'll revise my tactics and try very narrow and specific questions that I haven't been able to find answers to via search.

Question 1: Is the blade grind made before or after tempering? It seems I've seen it done both ways. What are the pros and cons of each and when should one method be used vs the other?
 
Incidentally, blade grinding is not a single step... it's multiple steps.

Likewise, heat treatment is not a single step... multiple steps. Tempering is one.... the last one. Hence the assertion that grinding occurs before.
 
tryppyr said:
Before. No advantages to doing things out of order.

Next.
Click to expand...

Easy there big fella. Many times handmade blades are ground after HT. Most commonly with thin blades that would have a greater likelihood of warping in the quench if fully ground before HT. Think folder blades and filet knives, among others.

That particular question and the instant answer given are a great example of how difficult it can be to make such a list, based on generalities. You need to be more specific about the style of knife you're talking about, and even then there's almost always several ways to accomplish the same step.
 
It all reminds me of a question posed a couple years ago. I liked it so much I used it in my sig line for a while. I'm paraphrasing, but it was basically "So lemme get this straight... you just grind it, harden it, polish it and SHAZAAM! A knife blade?"

He took some good-natured ribbing but yeah, that's pretty much it.
 
Having never attempted to make a knife, I had assumed that the blade would be ground before HT since the metal is easier to work with. Then I was looking through one of the WIP threads here (I can't seem to find it at the moment), and the maker definitely did the HT first thing after the blade was cut to shape. It seemed odd to me at the time, but the thread was old, so I didn't post a question, although I probably should have. Anyway, perhaps it was due to heat warping as you mentioned, James.
 
Vege-Taco said:
Having never attempted to make a knife, I had assumed that the blade would be ground before HT since the metal is easier to work with.
Click to expand...

And you're correct, stock removal knives are usually done that way. Except when they're not :D

Like the sticky threads, looking through WIPs can be a bit of a time vampire but you will likely find at least one answer to the majority of your questions :thumbup:
 
There have been dozens of books and videos on the subject.

Typing it all out right here and now for you, is not realistic.




Have you seen this ?

The Standard Reply to New Knifemakers v12

The answer to a 13 year old student is different than to a 40 year old engineer.
We may recommend a local supplier, or you may have a helpful neighbour; but that depends on where you are. We have members worldwide.
Fill out your profile with your location (Country and State at least), age, education, employment.

Look at the threads stickied at the top; many are expired, but not all.

The basic process in the simplest terms

Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Printable PDF
Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Website


Web Tutorials
Detailed instructions by Stacy E.Apelt

The Things I Advise New Knife Makers Against-Printable PDF

Handle Tutorial - Nick Wheeler-Website

http://www.engnath.com/manframe.htm

Books

A list of books and videos on the KnifeDogs Forum
http://www.knifedogs.com/showthread.php?t=5285

BladeForums - E-books or Google books
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=603203

I like:
David Boye-Step by Step Knifemaking
Tim McCreight-Custom Knifemaking: 10 Projects from a Master Craftsman
These are clear, well organized, widely available and inexpensive too.

Knife Design:
On the Google books thread, you can find
Lloyd Harding drawings
and
the Loveless book with large variety of proven classic styles.
Google books thread


Forging Books:
Lorelei Sims-The Backyard Blacksmith
An excellent modern book with colour photos for forging in general - no knifemaking.

Jim Hrisoulas- has 3 books on forging knives. Check for the cheaper paperback editions.
The Complete Bladesmith: Forging Your Way to Perfection
The Pattern-Welded Blade: Artistry in Iron
The Master Bladesmith: Advanced Studies in Steel

Machine Shop Basics -Books:
Elementary Machine Shop Practice-Printable PDF

The Complete Practical Machinist-Printable -1885-PDF
It’s being reprinted now, you can get it for $20 ish


The $50 knife Shop
It confused me for a long time.
Forging is NOT necessary; you can just file and grind to create a knife (stock removal)

The goop quench is total Bull, commercial quench oils are available, even grocery store canola oil works much better.

Junkyard steels require skill and experience to identify the steel and heat treat it properly.
You can buy proper steel like 1084FG from Aldo very cheaply.

I like cable damascus, but that advanced project has no place in a beginner’s book.

The home built grinders are the best thing about this book, but there is now a huge amount of info for 2x72” belt grinders on the web, including free plans.


Videos

Heat Treating Basics Video-downloadable
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days and you will understand it much better.
http://www.archive.org/download/gov.ntis.ava08799vnb1/ava08799vnb1_512kb.mp4

Many specific how to knifemaking videos are available, some are better than others.

The best overall Knifemaking video I have seen is
“Steve Johnson-Making a Sub-Hilt Fighter”

The best video on leather sheath making I have seen is
“Custom Knife Sheaths -Chuck Burrows - Wild Rose”
-(Paul Long has 2 new videos, his sheath work is fantastic. I hope the videos are too)

Green Pete's Free Video
Making a Mora bushcraft knife, stock removal, hand tools, neo tribal / unplugged heat treat.
"Green Pete" posted it free using torrent files.
Be sure to look at the other titles too.

Greenpete Knifemaking Basics-on TPB

You can see a list of videos and reviews at this rental company; some are worth buying, some renting…
They are slow to get new titles and wait times are measured in months,
http://smartflix.com/store/category/9/Knifemaking


Draw Filing Demonstration
YouTube video -Draw Filing-for a flat finish

Steel
The “welding steel” at Home Depot / Lowes… is useless for knives.
If you send out for heat treating, you can use O1, A2, D2, CM154, ATS34, s30v, 440C, plus many others.

If you heat treat yourself, find some 1070, 1080, 1084,
1084 FG sold by Aldo Bruno is formulated just for knifemaking.
http://njsteelbaron.com/
Ph# 862-203-8160

You can find a list of suppliers here
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=699736


Heat Treating
You can send blades out for heat treating at $10 or $15 per blade for perfect results, and avoid buying the equipment.

This PDF brochure gives a good overview
http://www.buckknives.com/resources/pdf/Paul_Bos_Brochure.pdf

http://www.petersheattreat.com/cutlery.html
http://www.texasknife.com/vcom/privacy.php#services
http://www.knifemaker.ca/ (Canadian)

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9143684&postcount=7

Grinder / Tools

Hand Tools
You can do it all by hand with files and abrasive cloth like the Green Pete video.

Photo of a nice bevel filing jig .
http://www.flemingknives.com/imagesPrime/FileStation/KPicB007.jpg

Entry Level Grinders
Many makers start with the Sears Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder.
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00921513000P?prdNo=3

Commercial Production 2 x 72” Belt Grinders
http://www.prometheanknives.com/shop-techniques-3/grinders

Mapp arm – Grinder Toolrest
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=466024


DIY 2 x 72” Belt Grinders

KMG Clone
Free Plans
http://www.dfoggknives.com/PDF/GrinderPlans.pdf

NWG No Weld Grinder
http://www.usaknifemaker.com/plans-for-the-no-weld-grinder-sander-nearly-50-pages-p-723.html

EERF Grinder (EERF =“Free” backwards)
Free plans
http://wilmontgrinders.com/EERFGrinder.aspx
http://blindhogg.com/blueprints.html
http://www.atlasknife.com


Buy the kit
http://polarbearforge.com/grinder_kit.html


Safety Equipment
I have a sign at my shop door, “Eyes, Ears, Fingers, Lungs” as a reminder to take off jewelry and put on my safety gear.

Respirators

bladsmth said:
Those paper paint masks are about as effective as using a sock for a condom.
Click to expand...

The minimum I would consider are the 3M and North silicone half masks;
even better are the powered positive pressure fresh air systems.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=788837
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=726309


V12 Edited dead links
 
Awesome, thanks! I'll keep reading.

[SCHWARZENEGGER VOICE]
I'll be back!
[\SCHWARZENEGGER VOICE]
 
You can still grind on a blade after the HT, just be careful to not overheat the blade and ruin the temper. If it changes color from heat, it's ruined. Now, I have yet to find out exactly what is ruined by heating a blade to 500°-800° after the temper when, but I've read many times that it's bad.
 
zaph1 said:
You can still grind on a blade after the HT, just be careful to not overheat the blade and ruin the temper. If it changes color from heat, it's ruined. Now, I have yet to find out exactly what is ruined by heating a blade to 500°-800° after the temper when, but I've read many times that it's bad.
Click to expand...

You are tempering at a higher heat than you want. Plus it is almost always the blade edge you heat up.
 
At it's most basic, here is my typical order of operations...

1. Forge
2. Condition the steel (Normalize-quench-subcritical anneal)
3. Tool to 80% (drill, grind, file, sand, etc...)
4. Heat treat (quench, temper, straighten if needed)
5. Finish tooling (final sanding, etching, patinating)
6. Mount handle
7. Make sheath
8. Final sharpening


Rick
 
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