Knifemaking.......Where to begin?

R

Rowlock

Joined
Jul 8, 2011
Messages
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Hi all. Just started here and I am excited about all the info. I am very interested in learning the craft of bladesmithing but I don't know where to begin. Do I just read books and learn on my own? Do I buy a kit? What about classes? I live in Florida and there aren't really any classes locally nor are there knifemakers to teach me. There are so many. Classes available.....I don't know which to take to gather all the optimal information I can. Any suggestions? Thank you in advance.
 
First fill out your profile so people can see where u are etc. Next read read read... Lots of good tutorials out there!
 
OK. first, fill out your profile. after i filled mine out, I found several people in my area who were knifemakers and were willing to help me out. next, read the how to make a knife sticky at the top of the forum. it will give you all the info that you need to get started. next, start asking specific questions and we will be happy to give you specific answers.

One question. Are you interested in forging or stock removal (taking a bar of steel and shaping it into a knife)? that will change the answers tremendously.
 
Rowlock said:
Hi all. Just started here and I am excited about all the info.
I am very interested in learning the craft of bladesmithing but I don't know where to begin.

Do I just read books and learn on my own?

There are so many. Classes available.....I don't know which to take to gather all the optimal information I can.
Click to expand...

Welcome to BF

You are right,it can be difficult to to know where to start.
I learn well from books; videos are great to see an actual process and there is no substitute for in person instruction.
The in person instruction will most depend on your time, money, schedule and ability to travel



As to what is best, well that depends all on you.
I suspect a mix is good.

Start with books and videos- then try to make some blades.
It's simple and cheap to start and that way and gain background into what you want to pursue and where you will need help.

I suspect in Florida there are TONS of opportunities.
I'll let those from there deal with that.

If you haven't already seen this, I post it quite often.



If you look into this info, there is some that applies to you.


The Standard Reply to New Knifemakers V15

The answer to a 13 year old student is different than to a 40 year old engineer.
We may recommend a local supplier, you may have a helpful neighbour, or local Hammerin; but that depends on where you are. We have members worldwide.
Please fill out your profile with your location (Country, State, City), age, education, employment, hobbies.

Look at the threads stickied at the top; many are expired, but not all.

The basic process in the simplest terms
Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Printable PDF-Right Click and Save
Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Website


Web Tutorials
Detailed instructions by Stacy E. Apelt

The Things I Advise New Knife Makers Against-Printable PDF

Handle Tutorial - Nick Wheeler-Website

http://www.engnath.com/manframe.htm

Books
A list of books and videos

BladeForums - E-books or Google books


I like:
David Boye-Step by Step Knifemaking
Tim McCreight-Custom Knifemaking: 10 Projects from a Master Craftsman
These are clear, well organized, widely available and inexpensive too.

Knife Design:
See the Google books thread for Lloyd Harding drawings & the Loveless book. Google books thread


Forging Books:
Lorelei Sims-The Backyard Blacksmith
An excellent modern book with colour photos for forging in general - no knifemaking.

Jim Hrisoulas- has 3 books on forging knives. Check for the cheaper paperback editions.
The Complete Bladesmith: Forging Your Way to Perfection
The Pattern-Welded Blade: Artistry in Iron
The Master Bladesmith: Advanced Studies in Steel

Machine Shop Basics -Books:
Elementary Machine Shop Practice-Printable PDF

The Complete Practical Machinist-Printable -1885-PDF
It’s being reprinted now; you can get it for $20 ish

The $50 knife Shop
It confused me for a long time.
Forging is NOT necessary; you can just file and grind to create a knife (stock removal)

The goop quench is total Bull.
Use commercial quench oil & match oil speed to the steel type; even grocery store canola oil works much better.

Junkyard steels require skill and experience to identify the steel and heat treat it properly.
You can buy proper steel like 1084FG from Aldo very cheaply.

I like cable damascus, but that advanced project has no place in a beginner’s book.

The grinders are the best thing about this book, but there is a huge amount of info for 2x72” belt grinders on the web, including free plans.

Forget about Lawnmower blades and start with a new known steel type.
Good heat treating needs accurate temperature control and full quench.

Videos

Heat Treating Basics Video-downloadable
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days.

Safety-video
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days.

Many specific how to knifemaking videos are available, some are better than others.

The best overall Knifemaking video I have seen is
“Steve Johnson-Making a Sub-Hilt Fighter”

Basic Bladesmithing
"Ed Caffrey - Basic Bladesmithing-Full DVD-ISO"

The best video on leather sheath making for beginners that I have seen is
“Custom Knife Sheaths -Chuck Burrows - Wild Rose”
-(Paul Long has 2 videos, his sheath work & videos are fantastic, but more advanced-with machine stitchers..)

Green Pete's Free Video
Making a Mora bushcraft knife, stock removal, hand tools, neo tribal / unplugged heat treat.
"Green Pete" posted it free using torrent files.
Be sure to look at the other titles too-The account index has disappeared, but search for LOTS of info. Use the keywords “LurkerLurker torrent” “knifemakerC torrent” and others
Greenpete Knifemaking Basics-on TPB

How to download that video
http://www.utorrent.com/help/guides/beginners-guide

You can see a list of videos and reviews at this rental company; some are worth buying, some renting…
http://smartflix.com/store/category/9/Knifemaking

Draw Filing Demonstration
YouTube video -Draw Filing-for a flat finish

Steel
The “welding steel” at Home Depot / Lowes… is useless for knives.

If you send out for heat treating, you can use O1, A2, D2, CM154, ATS34, s30v, 440C, plus many others.

If you want to heat treat yourself with minimal equipment, find some Eutectoid steel, 1070, 1080, 1084.
1084FG sold by Aldo Bruno is formulated for knifemaking.
http://njsteelbaron.com/
Phone # 862-203-8160

1095 is a good carbon steel with great results, but is a bad choice for a beginner with limited equipment.
1095 needs very good temperature control and proper fast quench oil Kevin Cashen - 1095 - hypereutectoid steel


You can find a list of suppliers here

Heat Treating
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9143684&postcount=7

You can send blades out for heat treating at $10 or $15 per blade for perfect results, and avoid buying the equipment.

This PDF brochure gives a good overview
http://www.buckknives.com/resources/pdf/Paul_Bos_Brochure.pdf

http://www.petersheattreat.com/cutlery.html
http://www.texasknife.com/vcom/privacy.php#services
http://www.knifemaker.ca/ (Canadian)


Grinder / Tools

Hand Tools
You can do it all by hand with files and abrasive cloth like the Green Pete video.
Photo of a nice bevel filing jig

Entry Level Grinders
Many makers start with the Sears Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder

Low Speed Modification Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder


Commercial Production 2 x 72” Belt Grinder Reviews
http://www.prometheanknives.com/shop-techniques-3/grinders
http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCKnifeMakingGrinders.htm

Mapp arm – Grinder Toolrest


DIY 2 x 72” Belt Grinders

KMG Clone Free Plans
http://www.dfoggknives.com/PDF/GrinderPlans.pdf

NWG No Weld Grinder
http://www.usaknifemaker.com/plans-for-the-no-weld-grinder-sander-nearly-50-pages-p-723.html

EERF Grinder (EERF =“Free” backwards)
http://wilmontgrinders.com/EERFGrinder.aspx
http://blindhogg.com/blueprints.html

Buy the kit
http://polarbearforge.com/grinder_kit.html

What Belts to buy?
http://www.usaknifemaker.com/abrasive-belt-basics-what-kind-should-i-buy-p-1393.html


Safety Equipment
Protect your -Eyes, Ears, Fingers, and Lungs – remove jewellery and put on safety gear.

Respirators
Chronic lung disease and cancer really suck the joy out of life.
The minimum I would consider are the 3M 7500 and North 7700 silicone half masks with a P100 Filter.
Use a VOC & P100 combo cartridge for protection against acetone and solvents.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=788837
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=726309



Searching
Search works for ALL users, even unpaid users.
Try it, I’ll bet you’re not the first to ask the question here


V15 Added Craftsman speed modification
 
Welcome Rowlock.

I started making knives in 2008 By reading anything I could about the process both online and from books. I practiced filing knives on mild steel that first year while searching for the thousands of answers to the thousands of questions that I had, such as "which steel should I use and where do I get it from?" There is sooooooo much information in this forum. Any question you can think of asking has probably been asked before. The challenge is in finding the information.

So, my suggestion is to read, read, read, and get some 1080 steel and start making a simple knife. I am amazed at all the "problems" I've had to figure out a solution for, like "how am I going to hold the steel in place while I file the bevels using the tools that I have at hand?" There are normally a number of different ways to accomplish the same thing. What works for YOU?

But when you get to a spot where you can't find the information you need to continue or the information is confusing, this is the time to turn to the forum.
General questions get general answers. For example, "How do I put the handle on my knife?"
But specific questions get you specific answers, for example, "I'm making a full tang drop point hunter (my first knife ever!) from 3/16" 1080 steel and want to attach the scales with pins. Though I am as careful as possible the holes never seem to line up and by the time I correct it I'm left with weird shaped holes that don't look good. I use a hand drill to make the holes. How can I make the holes correctly the first time I drill them? Here's a picture that shows how I did it and the crummy holes I was left with."

For some reason we like to see new people throw their lives or free time away making knives and want to help you down the path to full blown knife making addiction. Now you've been warned. If you persist in this silly notion of making knives it's your own fault. ;-)

- Paul Meske, Wisconsin (not Florida)
 
I just started making knives myself. I bought several books, $50 Knife shop, The Wonder of Knifemaking and a few others.
I read EVERY post on the Shop Talk forum here.... I went to a knifeshow in April, and met several knifemakers from my area.
I bought art supplies and started drawing knives, developing my personal taste in knives.
I found that the $50 Dollar knife shop is a myth...$2,000 dollars later and STILL buying more stuff.... Don't ever get intimidated by lack of tools, you could invest as little, or as much as you want depending on what your goals are.
As far as making your first knife, you can buy a blade blank and assemble it with your choice of handle material etc, or, buy a couple pieces of 1084 steel from Aldo Bruno and design what you are inspired by.
Honestly, I think it's taken me several hundred hours now of reading, talking to knifemakers and putting together a shop since December of 2010 to get to the point where I feel I have a basic knowledge of knives to get started properly. My vote is read, read, read to get the best start.
Best of Luck!
 
@ CBR, profile update and going to start reading. Thank you. @ thegeek...thank you for your offer for assistance. I appreciate it. As far as forging or stock removal, I'd have to say I am interested in it all but research will determine where my total focus will be. @ Toronto...thank you for the fantastic list of information. That is a great start for me. @ Lonepine, hope the snow has melted in WI. Feel free to take some Florida humidity. Thank you for the info and I am totally looking forward to expending my freetime to learn to make knives. @ Fluid...seems as though I will be doing a lot of research which is fine. That's why I am interested...to learn. Thanks everyone for their input. And it begins......
 
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Well if your ever in my area (lafayette la) more then welcome to come grind out some blades and what not.
 
Hey Rowlock,
Just keep reading all the info posted here. Do searches for stuff like newbie, newbie question. Do a search on my name, I have asked a bunch of newbie questions lol. The links that numbers posted all have some great info. I need to reread ta few more times

By the way, I'm outside of Ft Walton in Niceville. Maybe we can get together one day. There is a knife maker out in Navarre as well. I'll see if I can find his number and see if I can get you in touch with him. For steel for knives, I have a couple of pieces of 1084 or 1095 I can probably get to you. If you want to order some, order it from Aldo at http://njsteelbaron.com/ He is a really nice guy and easy to deal with. Just let him know that I will pick it up for you. That will save you on the shipping at least.

I have a small charcoal forge and a bandsaw for steel if you want to cut some stuff up. Maybe one day I could bring it over. I don't know much, but what I do know I'll gladly show you.
Rob
 
Thanks Rob. I am waiting on a couple of books to come from the library. In the meantime, I'm all over this site. I appreciate the help and the offer for the steel and use of your equipment. I will definately keep that in mind. The number also to the knifemaker in Navarre would be great. I don't know much myself but that's why I asked the help of the pro's. Thanks again. Hope to talk to you soon.

Brett
 
Hey Brett, I was just at metal recyclers in fwb off of beal by the mc donalds, cvs and tomb thumb. Think the cross street is green acres. in the pile of scrap on the right as you drive in there is a ready made forge. All you would have to do to it would be to line it with insulwool or refractory and put a burner in it to have a gas forge. It even has a door. I'll post a pic of it when I get home. if you go up there, talk to Lisa and she can point you to where it is. The only thing is, if they pull it out of the pile for you, she will expect you to buy it. If you pull it out and decide you don't want it, just put it back. Just guessing, it might weigh 40 to 80 pounds, maybe more. I think they sell stuff at .20 cents a pound? If you want a forge, this thing is perfect. The only reason I didn't get it is because I didnt have the cash on me.
 
It's a good looking forge from what I could see. The base looked to be about 3/4" steel plate (not in the picture). The upright is tube steel. In my opinion, it looks great. Hopefully there is nothing wrong with the other side. I was thinking about it all day today while riding around. I almost went back a couple of times to see how much it weighs and would cost. I had to keep saying " I don't need it, I don't need it." I have a book on how to build burners you could borrow if you wanted. I'll email you with my phone number. Call if you want and I'll tell you how to get out there if you don't know.
Edit: couldn't send you an email. you don't have it on your profile.

forge.jpg
 
Oh man....good find Rob. I will be in that area tomorrow morning so I will go check it out. I'm pretty sure I know exactly where you are talking about. Hopefully the other side is in good shape. Thanks for the heads up. I'll let you know how it is. BTW.....email is rowlock@hotmail.com
 
so i have to ask, what would be the easiest metal to use when making my first knife? Type of steel, thickness, length width? should i try making handles of premade blades first and then move on to the metal working after i get a feel for the handle? and what kind of tools other than the obvious files,grinders? hacksaw, drill, and i remember reading wet/dry sandpaper? anything else im forgetting?
 
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