knive sharpening

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rick45acp

Joined
Apr 21, 2001
Messages
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I need a sharpening system that has a guide to keep the angles correct. What is the best way to go and where is the best place to get it? Will be sharpning mainly plain edge ats-34 and bg-42.

[This message has been edited by rick45acp (edited 04-28-2001).]
 
Razor's Edge Systems has a set up with guides, stones and a great folding steel.

You can buy the guides seperately if you want. I live on a small city in Alberta and a hunting store here sells the guides for $11.95, so check around where you live for guides.

Their guides do wear as you use them, but they work great. There is a bit of a learning curve as well. I almost sent my kit back, but I stuck with it and I'm glad I did. I just sharpened a kitchen knife last week with the guides and it did the trick!

Skarb and Edge Pro are two other companies with fixed angle systems. DMT has their diamond system too. I don't know how the rest of these work, but I know that the Razor's Edge gizmo works.

Good luck on your sharpening journeys!


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"Come What May..."
 
I've got an unused GATCO kit, that I'll sell you pretty cheap. It came with a little Timberline folder that I've managed to lose, but I believe I gave $40 for it. If you're interested, e-mail me.


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Asi es la vida

Bugs
 
Do a search on "Spyderco Sharpmaker" and you'll find this is an easy, flexible system that will give you consistent results. Bayou Lafourche is always competitively priced.
 
The Spyderco Sharpmaker doesn't have a guide. You can hold the angle close by keeping blade vertical, but no substitute for a truly guided setup. I can't personally justify making the time to learn how to use the Sharpmaker...some others swear by it, I swear at it unless I'm doing a quick touchup on a Stellite paring knife or doing serrations (for which it is very good). I have no doubt that some have mastered the shaving edge touchup on a Sharpmaker, but I sure as H@ll wouldn't want to reprofile an edge on this thing...and I tend to ruin the point on my knives with it also since you need pressure to cut steel, and then your tip slips off and to the side at the end of the stroke and you round the tip quickly if you do this even once or twice.

The Lansky w/ diamond stones works for me. I don't like a couple things about it (short stones, fixed angles, uncomfortable handles on stones). Also, blade thicknesses of 1/4" are not possible. And it only works for blades up to about 4.5" max. For longer blades, you have to sharpen in two separate passes...sharpen both sides, move the clamp, then sharpen rest of blade. A bit of common sense with the Lansky and you can do up to say 9" blades if they aren't past 3/16" thick. So it's for folders only for me for the most part. But my folders are all reprofiled with Lansky and so it makes sense to keep using it for touchups (since I'm into sharp and not lots of rework reprofiling). I can and do sit in front of the TV and touch up my daily carry arsenal.

My buddy tried my Lansky and swears he likes his Gatco better, and I trust him. I'd get the Gatco w/ diamond stones if you opt for this style of system. All stated problems w/ Lansky exist for Gatco in lesser degrees.

IMHO, you want diamond for the better, harder steels with hard moly/tungsten/vanadium carbides like BG-42, ATS-34, CPM 440V/420V, etc.

See also the EdgePro. I've been very tempted to buy one of these and still may. It appears (on paper, I haven't tried) to be able to handle larger blades. Looks like you have to hold the knife in place whilst you scrub with stone. I'd rather blade were clamped down. Guy that runs this biz doesn't understand diamond stones and will try to talk you out of them. Try his stones first. Then spend the money and buy say a coarse and a fine diamond stone. (DMT gets consistent praise, EZE Lap somewhat less consistent praise) if you like to work less reprofiling your edges (which you invariably have to do from factory...most sharpen by hand and the angles aren't consistent across the blade). With the fine diamond stone (final step), you get a really toothy, aggressive, grabby working edge that shaves but does well on things like rope and zip ties and boxes and small 1/4" vines/branches. Once I learned to sharpen with diamond, I now have infrequent use for serrated blades (and only own about 3 partly serrated out of probaby 40 knives I use)

http://business.gorge.net/edgepro/default.htm

This SKARB system looks interesting and could work well for larger blades (up to say 7"). Looks like you'd have to have a pretty long skinny stone to do a 12" blade. Guide holds knife such that you'll immitate the motion of someone who sharpens free-hand on stones, so the variation in angle might be close to hand-sharpened knives more than others. You can buy large diamond flat bench stones from DMT and EZE Lap so this could be a winner (buy one and tell us how it goes!). Not sure I like the Delrin used for "master housing"...seems like it would wear/wallow-out over time. Looks like a Delrin screw that holds master housing to vertical rod.

I set up a bench grinder with a hard fiberboard wheel impregnated with silicon carbide sand/grit (solid carborumdum wheels are too harsh, not flat/true without facing them with a special tool, and are generally too aggressive and too fast) and a hard fiberboard wheel with rouge to do larger blades (I can actually get a scraping sharp shaving edge on a 22" machete). Angle is hard to hold constant, but don't care and want something kinda convex and steep on a machete or big knife anyway.)

This bench grinder wheel system is for sale here, called the "PROFESSIONAL KNIFE SHARPENING WHEEL SET" on "page one" of the "Sharpening Equipment" section:

http://www.texasknife.com/store/s-pages/TKS_MainframeStore.htm

I could never get past the idea that you have to rub the Razor's Edge clamp on the same stone that you rub the blade on. I mean, why would I want the extra friction, noise, and why wear out the clamp (soft) on the stone and why plug up the stone pores that much quicker? And no adjustability in that clamp? YMMV.


Here is a good thread comparing Sharpmaker w/ the Edgepro:

http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/004065.html


[This message has been edited by rdangerer (edited 04-29-2001).]
 
rdangerer, I had to laugh all the way through your post.

You didn't have the time to learn the Sharpmaker; but I was getting fine results as I played with it while watching the video, before I even learned all Sal's techniques.

Then you go on to describe all kinds of more complex systems! You obviously know your stuff. I think you just don't pay much attention to the Sharpmaker because you don't need anything that simple anymore

I like the simplicity, portability, snd speed. Of course it isn't much good for reprofiling, but it will keep working knives dangerously sharp.
 
Just a quick hint ...

I tend to ruin the point on my knives with it also since you need pressure to cut steel, and then your tip slips off and to the side at the end of the stroke and you round the tip quickly if you do this even once or twice.

You don't need that much pressure, especially with the coarse rods. Stroke lightly and focus on drawing the blade down along the rod, not pressing against it.
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Esav Benyamin:
rdangerer, I had to laugh all the way through your post.

You didn't have the time to learn the Sharpmaker; but I was getting fine results as I played with it while watching the video, before I even learned all Sal's techniques.

Then you go on to describe all kinds of more complex systems! You obviously know your stuff. I think you just don't pay much attention to the Sharpmaker because you don't need anything that simple anymore

I like the simplicity, portability, snd speed. Of course it isn't much good for reprofiling, but it will keep working knives dangerously sharp.</font>
Click to expand...

Esav, no need to write about laughter which implies derision. Others share my views, plenty share yours.

Recall the original question on the post ...guy wanted a jig-guided sharpener. I addressed that and more.

I'm not trying to overcomplicate things, just offering my own personal experience with three systems (Sharpmaker, jig, and bench grinder). YMMV.

Point is I have tried using the Sharpmaker and it is very time consuming (and to me, therefore, inefficient) for reprofiling. And I can very consistently exceed my own results on the Sharpmaker with the Lansky. (diamond, grabby shaving edge).

Assuming that you are willing to reprofile your knives (and I get so many different angles from the factory & custom makers, most vary angle from rear to tip of blade), then I happen to get much sharper, most consistent, and therefore quicker resharpening results by:
1. using a jig
2. reprofiling my factory edges for constant angle
3. using diamond
4. using Lansky (Gatco is about same)

You imply the jig is slow and not portable. My Sharpmaker takes up about the same volume of space as my Lansky box. So both are equally portable.

I guess it takes me about 30 seconds to get knife in jig. Another 30 to get the rods into two stones. And maybe 3 minutes in front of TV to take a reprofiled but dull knife back to shaving with only the fine diamond stone. That might not be faster than what you can touch up on your Sharpmaker, but for me, I like the diamond-induced edge better so the speed issue is moot (unless 4 minutes in front of the TV strikes you as unreasonable). There are diamond sleeves available for the Spyderco now that I think about it.

For my soft stellite paring knives, the Sharpmaker is quicker and works fine (this is about 1/2 straightening of the edge, 1/2 removing a bit of metal). The rest of the kitchen knives get a near-to-shaving edge on a motorized diamond sharpener: Chef's Choice EdgeSelect 120. I can sharpen 12 knives in 6 minutes. Not suitable for nice folders or blades with any recurve though.

For serrations, the Sharpmaker works very well, as well or a bit better than the Lansky stone for serrations, and Sharpmaker is faster. So that's what I use on serrations.

I would also add that if you own a Sebenza or CRK fixed blade, you will find that you'll destroy that convex final edge CRK puts on his knives with a jig system...it flattens out that convexivity. The Sharpmaker will do well if you learn how to keep only that tiny bit of final edge on the stone. I get better results with a flat board with rubber pad glued on top, and use of 400 and then 600 grit sandpaper, with a pull stroke to keep true convexivity. YMMV.

One other thing... as you use knives for varying tasks (daily carry vs. heavy work outdoors), you may decide you want to use differing angles (maybe a steep, wicked sharp for daily carry, and a taller/tougher angle for heavy work). The Spyderco is limited to the angles that they supply in the base of the device. The new one has two sets of slots and so two angles for knives. I think they are 30 and 40 deg (included angle) but don't remember and it isn't marked. And another angle for scissors that holds ceramic rod nearly flat so is not useable really for knives.

Many of these other systems go from 4 settings (Lansky is 17, 20, 25, 30) to continuously variable from around 15 to 33 degrees not-included angles.

Anyway, to the extent that the poster gets an idea of what he/she wants to try first, then so be it.


[This message has been edited by rdangerer (edited 04-29-2001).]
 
A few more points on the RAzor's Edge guides:

Yes, the do wear on the stones. But they don't wear out all that fast. You first grind in relief in your blade without using the guides at all. Relief is the angle/area just behind the edge. To get a great cutting edge, you need good relief. With a good relief ground in, you then put on the clamp and sharpening goes by very quickly. The clamps do last a good while, but eventually they wear.

As far as angle adjustment goes, you can't sellect 15, 20, 25, and so on degrees with the clamps, but they are somewhat adjustable. If you put the clamp as far down on the blade as you can, you get the steepest angle you can get. If you put the clamp on the back of the blade such that it barely grabs the back, you get a shallow angle. Whatever angle th guides are set up at, they ensure that the angle is CONSTANT, which is very important. And whatever angle the guides are set at, they work for knive smeant for cutting, as the hair, or rather lack of it, on my arms is a testament to that.

If you can get a copy of the Razor's Edge book of sharpening, you may want to read it and see if tha helps you decide what gear would best suit you. I wouldn't use my Razor's Edge guides on, say, a Strider folder, as they are meant to have a thick edge, while the Razor's Edge guides, as has been my experience, are meant for putting on those super slicing edges.

Good luck.

Oh, make sure you let us know what you bouy and why!
smile.gif


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"Come What May..."
 
I have both Sharpmaker and Lansky sytems.

My problems with the Lansky system lie with maintaining a consistent blade angle, particularly with longer blades. I really don't have the patience to re-clamp the blade periodically in order to preserve consitent edge angles over the length of the blade.

The Sharpmaker is better for maintaining consistent angle over the length of the blade, requiring only the discipline to maintain vertical blade orientation as the edge-sides are stroked. Rounding of the blade tip is a valid criticism, but can be defeated by carefully manually honing the area of the blade near the tip with bench stones.

Both are deficient when re-profiling a blade, taking seemingly forever.

I use Spyderco ceramic bench stones for re-profiling - but find the Sharpmaker an excellent gauge for periodically checking equal-angle metal removal while using the stones. Painting the edge-sides with 'Marks-A-Lot' markers will quickly reveal uneven angles on each side of the edge.

For finishing, I use a 2-stage loaded leather strop system to polish the edge-sides and apply a mini-convex edge for edge durability.
 
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