Knives as a commodity

wolfmann601

wolfmann601

Gone, but not forgotton. RIP Ira.
Joined
Mar 12, 2001
Messages
7,385
This may sound stupid, but I do not care. When does a knife lose it's beauty to a collector and just become a "COMMODITY"?
After spending days reading threads, posts, and archives and find folks with 2,000 posts, and 1,995 deal with ONLY the buying, selling, and trading of knives on this forum, AND rarely if ever do they join in a thread and offer suggestions, comments, advice ABOUT knives.
HAVE these people lost their love of knives for what they are, KNIVES, and now just view them as a PRODUCT?
I have always looked towards those formites with 2,000 or more posts for help in becoming the better knife collector, but IMHO, I just find it strange that some have used BF as their personal "KNIFE WALL STREET" and wheel and deal in knives, but have nothing to say about their beauty as a knife and NOT their value as a product on any of the many threads since BF became BF. Is it me?????
:confused: :confused: wolf
 
I personally listen more to people who use their knives, than those who have owned a lot. Just looking at a knife and fondling it are no substitute for carrying it, sharpening it, cutting things with it. I see a lot of posts from people who rave about how their new model X, with steel Y, from company Z, is the best thing since sliced bread, and then I see it for sale NIB...kinda makes you wonder how they know it's so good.
 
Wolf,

People have different perspectives on their hobbies, and they derive pleasure in their own way. There is nothing wrong with that. We all enjoy knife collecting in one way or another.

Some like to go out and test their knives to the limit, for them its an engineering problem, an experiment to determine how to best evaluate a piece of steel.

Some like to incorporate knives into their martial arts program; they enjoy the physical challenge of putting a knife into motion, does it feel secure, deploy quickly, or allow various techniques.

We also have our share of historians who play with knives almost as an archeologist; these are the guys who see an old knife and do their best to get it to talk a little.

There are outdoormen (people) and survivalist who are after the ultimate tool; just a little something to give them some advantage
when things go wrong, or simply to make the next trip a little more enjoyable.

We even have a few knife traders who probably spend a lot of time swapping for sport, and enjoying the contact with the people they meet along the way.

Just becuase you don't see people participating in the forum discussions does not mean that they are not into knives. There is plenty of information changing hands via email and in chat rooms, via telephone and in person, everyone has their own favorite medium.

n2s
 
Great post wolfmann! I have also wondered about this phenomenom as well. I have never sold a knife, and rarely browse the trading forums, but it is quite evident that there are a LOT of BFC members who use this site Mostly for the buying and selling of knives. This has been a contentious and difficult problem for this and other knife internet sites as they grow, upgrade servers, and increase bandwidth. That is why this site charges a fee for membership priviledges to use the trading forums. Some people think an internet web site is Obligated to provide a space and opportunity for free advertising. I think this is a misuse of the site and unfair to the people who actually pay to make it possible. Folks who do not post in the other forums are denying the knife community the benefit of their unique perspectives, and are way too focused on knives as Money.

Some knife collectors seem to buy and trade knives almost as fast as they change underwear. It makes no sense to me, but I think some people get fascinated lots of different sorts of knives, and are constantly changing their collection. Some people are really amateurs dealers, seeking to buy at a low price and sell at a high price. For these folks, knives Are a commodity.

Personally, I only buy knives that I think are worth More than the money I pay and then I keep and enjoy them. The idea of selling a knife scares me. I know I would regret selling any of the custom knives I own, even if I made a profit.

Para
 
Well, just yesterdey I noticed that the mirror polsihed blued clip on my Jason Jacks folder has got some scratches...
"MY god... all that money, now the knife won't fetch me much if I want to sell it". Then, immediately after "What the hell! I just ain't gonna sell it, ever, so who cares?" :D :D :D
 
I trade knives likea fish!!......?:confused:
Well I trade a lot. I like to be able to try the new stuff without paying. Microtechs, Benchmades, Sebenza, customs, you name it. I rarely keep knives for long. I like getting to try new cutlery. I do try to give my opinion on the other forums though. Right now I am carrying a kershaw scallion and a little Schrade 2 blade.
 
I'm so glad someone (else) asked this question. I've wrestled for a couple of months with how to get some insight into this without starting a flamefest, and as a newbie it seemed presumptuous to ask.

I've been lurking here for months and am blown away by the number of times I read a rave review of a knife only to see the same poster selling the knife 2 days later. I don't get it.

I have yet to buy a knife that didn't grow on me or become more cherished over time. How can you sell something after a couple of days?

If you buy something without regard for whether or not you'll like it or need it, then you're a trader -- not a collector.
 
Ira, I hope that I never reach the point that I treat knives as a commodity. I love to look at, handle and use knives and try as hard as I can to show my enthusiasm for knives in all of my posts.

Knives could never become a commodity for me, but for those that love to trade in knives I say, all the best to them. If you love getting to own and handle and possibly use as many knives as you can, then trading them is a great way to do that. Hopefully though, those who do this will be willing to pass on to the rest of us what they learn about the knives they have go through their hands. That way they will be an incredible store of knowledge for the rest of us to draw from.

For those that use this forum just to trade knives, I find that to be a real shame. There is one gentleman in particular that has gone through a huge number of knives and I am sure that he could provide an almost endless bounty of information on those knives. He chooses not to pass any of that information on to the rest of us and I find that to be a real pity. I will never in my life have as many knives as he seems to trade, buy or sell in an average two or three months, But I am only to happy to pass along whatever little information I have and find it a great pleasure to do so.
 
I hope you understand EXACTLY what I am saying. I am not in any way insinuating, hinting, or suggesting that this type of person gets any pleasure in a knife beyond it's MONETARY VALUE. I am talking about those who collect, on this forum knives, on a gun forum, GUNS, but do so ONLY to turn a profit.
They can talk about the beauties of every handmade and custom knife. they know the BIG-GUNS of this industry. They can talk the talk with the best of them, but knives are nothing more than a "blue-chip stock" and their only activity on a forum, in this case BLADE FORUM is to buy to sell and TRADE to sell KNIVES.
I am NOT making a critical comment about someone. This is not a negative post. This is a NEWBIE'S request to have a very important question answered: Why do some folks see knives as ONLY a product, and can be an active member of BF, with several thousand posts, and have 99.99% all under the "knife exchange"? As I said when I started this thread, you may find this stupid, I am absolutely perplexed. I am NOT talking about the knife-lover who wheels and deals to be able to at some point own many knives, even for only a short period of time, I am talking about those who have never commented about a Maker, a Grind, what knife is better than another, offered any information to another Formite, but is ready to pounce within seconds should a "good deal" be posted in the Knife exchange.
ALL I want to know is simply; When this happens, does that type of person cease being a true knife lover and collector, and BECOME more of an investor and commodity mover for the purpose of growing their financial portfolio????????:confused: :confused: I REALLY NEED TO KNOW!!!!!!thanks.....Ira
 
Ira, the type of person that you are describing is a dealer(not just a knife deealer, but any kind of dealer). However I have yet to find a KNIFE dealer that does not love knives. I am not sure that there is a person who deals with knives strickly as commodity. There are many safer and more stable commodities. I think that even a person who is buying and selling for a profit, loves knives.
 
This does not come from first hand observation, but I doubt that most of the collectors of knives do so to increase their portfolios. The average collector does so because they love what they collect not because they expect to see a return on their investment. There are those that buy Scagel's, Loveless', Henry's, Warenski's or a score of other makers who's knives values are ever increasing, just so that they can make money on them. There are people that collect Picasso's and Renoir's for the same reason. Then they put them in a vault never to look at them again until it is time to sell them. I personally think this is a soulless thing to do. I have to have have my knives where they can be fondled as I would have to put a Rembrandt out where all could see.

For me it is such a waste to put a knife in a safe. That is not where they are meant to be. On the other hand, if I owned a Scagel you can be darn sure it would never get used. It would on the other hand get handled regularly. I think that this is how most knife collectors appreciate their collections. They are constantly holding them, looking at them and talking about them. Collecting in and of itself is a great passtime as you get to meet many others with the same passion as that you have. People that collect knives are part of their own world and they love it and the other people that are part of it.

People collect for all kinds of reasons, but they do not do so to make money on what they own. Those are not collectors, they are investors and for the most part knives make very poor monetary investments.

Enough rambling, sorry to have gone on so.
 
Knives are like baseball cards and comic books. Most people can live the rest of their lives with a good folder and a good fixed blade. We really don't need dozens of knives but we knife nuts desire to own more and more. America is a captalistic and materialistic society so we buy and trade all most everything of material value. It's a way of life.
 
Wolf old friend,
Like the previous blokes said – it takes all kinds.
The secret is to have fun. To enjoy your hobby.
For some people making money by trading or selling represents enjoyment. So be it.
What is more important is what motivated you to collect/own knives. Once you are sure in your own mind and understand what your brand of poison is – go out and strive to enjoy your hobby.
Others may think your reasons for loving knives is silly, but do you really care?
I hope not.
Just enjoy yourself.
 
I could write 60 pages on WHY I needed THIS question answered. I will say it this way. That this is a very new "hobby" for me and I have never been so engaged and involved in collecting something in my life.
I collected guns for 26 years and have just a few very special firearms. The rest of my "collection" has been sold for KNIVES. I was starting to get that itch to just liquidate some assets and go out and buy a few MEGA-KNIVES, but for what purpose? To just hold on to them UNTIL the time is right to use them as a commodity, or worse, put them in a safe and never even look at them.
Nope, you have answered my question. I need to slow my BUTT down, take knife collecting ONE STEP at a time and work hard to finally be fortunate enough to buy that Randall or Scagel or Loveless ( and yeah a Hossom;) )and then value them as a KNIFE and not as a financial investment. If I stay at this long enough, I will STAY at this. If I jump too quick, I am going to be a "has been" and out of the knife "business" very swiftly.
Thanks, I now have the whole CONCEPT of knife-collecting.......wolf:D
 
I will swap and trade factory knives on a whim. As far as the customs I purchase for my collection (both the users and the safe sitters) I did not purchase them as an investment. If for some reason they go up in value fine, but it does not make a difference since I like the knife(s) and most likely have a relationship with the person that made it. If these puppies become a commodity to me, it will be time for me to get out.

Wolfman I think you have the right idea.
(BTW I never got the email on the books you were interested in (There have been problems with my mail server that seem to be resolved.)
 
Ira:
I think you are a member of the human race,and because of that you are fickle just like everyone else.Your interestes have changed also.I too collected guns(S@W and Winchester shotguns)for many years.One day I changed somehow and sold EVERYTHING.But the thing that has remained constant my whole life is my love of knives.
Sometimes(like right now). I am downsizing.Went to my safe a couple weeks ago to put away a new purchase and lo and behold, no room for my new purchase.I looked at my collection,and did some changes.Go in a new direction.Fouy years I did the same thing with my Randalls.Sold 44 knives,all Randall.They were a commodity.Got lots of money for them.
I have a suggestion.Talk to Les Robertson.He has more insight into this knife thing than any 10 men.
My .02
Randy
 
Knife buying and selling does not resemble a commodities marketplace at all, not in form or function. And, I don't many folks who use knives as a commodity.

But an awful lot of them use them as collectibles. Things that bring joy not from use, but simply from ownership. And, there are nearly as many knifemakers accomodating them: making knives not to be used, but to be owned. Encrusted with jewels, filigreed with gold, intricately engraved, forged in incredibly intricate mosaic patterns: the list is endless of beautiful creations made by truly gifted artisans. These knives may be used to chop, cut, whittle, etc; but who is likely to shell out several thousand dollars for such tasks? On a smaller scale, the maker who turns out a tactical with polished bolsters, pearl handles, and damascus blade knows that it is unlikely to be carried on the buyer's next mission across enemy lines. And, for the economically challenged, having a matched set of green handled black bladed models from their favorite production factory may serve the same purpose. All these guys have a love of knives, and carry a user (or two or three) daily, but they're buying knives whose primary reason for existence was to be collected.
 
To some people, knives ain't nothing but skew numbers.

Not only that, but I guarandamntee you some of the hard hitters of late in the "Individual/Custom and Productions For Sale" forum are dealers, dealers, dealers...

People like what they've got, so they tolerate their presence. These are the guys you're never seeing posting elsewhere.

Professor.
 
I sent you my "wish list", but you know computers!!!!!:D :D

This is a very serious issue with me. I am stuck at a point in my life where I can do one of two things. I can just go dump 25 Grand and hunt these boards, E-bay, KF, and others. I can contact Les Robertson, Larry at Bladeart. Josh at PVK, Pat at TAD,Spark at 1SKS. I can call on the Big makers, and the not so big makers and just spend this money as a PURE INVESTMENT. Or I can leave my money RIGHT where it is, for my wife and my kids and work my A$$ off to make that little extra to BUY knives. I fell absolutely in love with Knives in January of 2000 and I have NEVER looked back. My collection is still very small and comprised of mostly hi-end production. BUT it is mine, knives that I worked to buy or trade for. I clean them, sharpen them carry them and have no intention of getting rid of them. BUT where do I go from here?:confused: :confused: This has become a real SERIOUS life issue for me. I find myself engaging in E-mail pissing contests over knives, find myself posting war stories, catch myself AFTER posting an opinion in something that is REALLY none of my business. OR IS IT? I made a decision to become very involved here. I also made a decision to buy only the very best in knives. But I want to do it for me, and I want to make each trade or purchase special. Even if the knife is a Benchmade and not custom or hand-made knife.
So, instead of going to W&C and whinning to Gus or venting to Jake, it is time I ASK the HARD question of fellow formites. I have ALREADY stated some may find this stupid, dumb or offensive. I do not give a crap. I absolutely need to know if knives should be my LOVE or knives should be an Extra income. I can then stop participating in different threads, stop spending hours researching grinds, steels, makers, KNIVES, KNIVES and KNIVES and turn my focus to MONEY, MONEY, MONEY. If anyone for one second does NOT believe that there are folks that look at knives as simply a PRODUCT, then I need to sell you some of my Beautiful Pine trees that grow on my property.
I have been here long enough to know who the "players" are. And they are quite a world apart from the big time "KNIFE LOVERS". Those who are actively growing their collection and growing their knowledge, but at the same time, participating in many threads and in chat to help other formites hopefully enjoy the same level of LOVE that they have for their knives. Thats the ISSUE, which way to go. be a knife Lover or play the game hard and be gone in six months, no knives in my life, but if I am good, I turn a profit.
So, answer this three part question for me. Can knife DEALERS also be knife lovers. Can Knife-Lovers also be Dealers. And Can people look at knifes as simply a medium of exchange in order to assist them in enjoying a better income (now the kicker!!) WHILE making people BELIEVE they really do ENJOY collecting and using knives????????
Thanks........Ira
:confused: :confused:
 
In short the answer to all your questions is yes, yes and yes.
One cannot trust all the people all the time.
There are dishonest people at all levels of society.
The trick is to identify and then associate with a select group of people you know you can trust.
All people tend to be biased towards personal preferences. Unfortunately some are just dishonest, I suspect because a manufacturer is rewarding them to push their products.

Identify those worthy of your trust. Make them your friends.
Investigate so-called experts before believing.
Just because you are new to knives, does not mean everyone can teach you something.

Knowing you Ira, I would say that you really enjoy the social aspects of collecting and the friends you are making.
Do not plunge into this activity head first and at all costs.
SEE IT AS A HOBBY.
 
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