knives as art

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Paliden

Joined
Mar 26, 2006
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I am hopeing that someone out there may be able help me. Recently I was involved in a discussion with some artist friends. They doubted that knives are a valid art form. They considere it a craft. Now granted it takes a great deal of craftmanship but I truly beleive that it is a valid art form. so my question is, can someone point me to some articals, and or essays on knives as art?
thanks
 
Based on the definition alone I would say your friends are wrong.

art

PRONUNCIATION: ärt
NOUN: 1. Human effort to imitate, supplement, alter, or counteract the work of nature. 2a. The conscious production or arrangement of sounds, colors, forms, movements, or other elements in a manner that affects the sense of beauty, specifically the production of the beautiful in a graphic or plastic medium. b. The study of these activities. c. The product of these activities; human works of beauty considered as a group. 3. High quality of conception or execution, as found in works of beauty; aesthetic value. 4. A field or category of art, such as music, ballet, or literature. 5. A nonscientific branch of learning; one of the liberal arts. 6a. A system of principles and methods employed in the performance of a set of activities: the art of building. b. A trade or craft that applies such a system of principles and methods: the art of the lexicographer. 7a. Skill that is attained by study, practice, or observation: the art of the baker; the blacksmith's art. b. Skill arising from the exercise of intuitive faculties: “Self-criticism is an art not many are qualified to practice” (Joyce Carol Oates). 8a. arts Artful devices, stratagems, and tricks. b. Artful contrivance; cunning. 9. Printing Illustrative material.
 
I've read a little on this subject, and have read and heard the opinions from several people. While I can see both sides of the story, I can't always seem to make up my mind on what Art is...except to say it depends on the knife.

I'll use one of my favorite makers for example, and paraphrase his son Ray jr to some extent from what i've read on another forum. Ray Cover makes what many consider some of the finest custom slipjoints and fixed blade knives at any price, but his prices make them even more desirable. I've often referred to his work as "a work of art" and still think of it that way most of the time. In fact, however, Ray makes a given number of "models or patterns" and even though some are very scarce...they are patterns. About the only thing that changes from one example of his work to another is the handle material or blade steel. Therefore, they aren't considered art by many people, including his son Ray Jr. So, It might be more accurate to say he is a master at the craft of knife making. AS one of Ray Cover Sr.'s biggest fans...it's hard for me not to think of his work as art, but I do understand the position that it might not be:confused:

On the other hand, there are many makers who make true "Art" knives that are unique, one of a kind examples of their work. So again, it depends on the knife and how it is embellished.

I think the average knife collector thinks of his favorite makers' work as art regardless of how other people perceive it. I know I do!:D
 
These guys are academics, i'm tryin to convence them and am looking for as much ammo as i can get. they beleive that for somthing to be called art then it hasto make some kind of statement.
 
Sorry, I can't point to particular reference right this moment, but I think the majority of what you'll find written on the subject will say it depends on the knife ;)
 
If somebody paints a bowl of fruit, what exact statement are they making? That there is too much hunger in the world?

Buster Warenski's King Tut Dagger sure looks like art to me. Much more so than many of the paintings and sculptures I have seen.

kingtut-EL1.jpg
 
Good read, thanks for posting the link. It's more or less the same as my opinion, but much more well put:o :D
 
Paliden said:
These guys are academics, i'm tryin to convence them and am looking for as much ammo as i can get. they beleive that for somthing to be called art then it hasto make some kind of statement.
Click to expand...

Define "Statement". If it means what I think it means, than many of the greats weren't "Artists" by their definition. Paintings and Sculpture by Van Eyck, Caravaggio, and Bernini werent so much "statements" as they were "portrayals"
 
Why don't you tell them to visit the Metropolitan Museum of ART, in NYC, and have a look in the Arms and Armor section there. Plenty of edged things to look at there. Is that art?
 
Thanks guys I believe that some of your answers will aid in my on going discussion with them. Personally I believe hand made knives to be excellent examples of art. Every culture on the planet has knives that are unique to that culture. Knives were the first tools that man ever made and with them man has shaped his environment, his culture, and society. It has been a survival tool, weapon, and everything in between. From the earliest times man has artistically embellished his knives. Knives quickly became more than just a tool to man, they would be perpetually at man’s side. Knives became honored family heirlooms, status symbols, even a means of passage into manhood for some. Even today we hold onto our fascination for these tools, we still use them daily. They still hold a place of honor in our minds and our imaginations, we need not look any farther than to our modern versions of the stories and legends once told around the camp fire, our movies and television shows. Though as a weapon the blade has been replaced by the gun, the blade still holds a more honored position in our minds and even culture. It reminds us of the idea of a better, more honorable time. It is the blade that symbolizes nobility, bravery, and strength. So thoroughly has the symbolism of the blade that it is even used in our religions. I guess what i have been looking for is some kind of academic response that would be a convincing response to these academic artisans who doubt the validity of forms outside the classic forms.
 
i can only say what i feel about art . art is in the eyes of the beholder so any time a knife or anything else( wood, stone, paint and canvas) is taken beyond form over fuction it is art. basically all we need is some steel and a haft to fuction anything else takes it to art in the eyes of the maker and possibly anyone who sees it.look at the king tut dagger and if u do not see art then u are blind or just want to argue. that knife would skin a deer , kill a enemity but it would also make your soul at peace.

david
 
You need to define art before you can answer that question. Philosophers do that.

Personally I don't think they are an art, but then I also don't think there's such a thing as an abstract art. Art has to mean something, make a statement. Good art make a statement with regards to Man's heroic nature and pushes us to be more heroic ourselves. Bad art promotes fear, self loathing, hatred, and the irrational.

Knives don't do either of those things. They're a craft.
 
Paliden said:
These guys are academics, i'm tryin to convence them and am looking for as much ammo as i can get. they beleive that for somthing to be called art then it hasto make some kind of statement.
Click to expand...

"Convince" them? You're wasting your time.

"A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still."

(of course knives are art! :D )
 
It's interesting how many knife collectors when asked about knives as art, use as examples highly embelished blades that combine the facets of jewelry (e.g. precious materials) and decorative arts (carving, engraving, etc.). I believe that there can be "art" in the most simplistic of designs, say be the former knifemaker Sean Perkins or the Boye Basic Knife. Art is can be very simple, such as three lines in a famouis Picasso that form a woman.
 
brownshoe said:
....I believe that there can be "art" in the most simplistic of designs....
Click to expand...

Absolutely! (Can you say "Bauhaus"?)

I can find 'artistic beauty' in well designed, beautifully crafted bottle opener. I think we throw the 'artsy-fartsy' knives (of which I own many ;) ) into the argument because we feel that's what the 'uninitiated' can best relate to. I'm as guilty of that as anyone. I find the design of, say, the Spyderco 'Police' as "artful" as my latest aquisition from Josef Rusnak (photos to be posted soon) but if I were to show both knives to a non-knife person, I can guarantee that they would consider one a 'weapon' and the other a piece of 'art'. Their loss, imho.

That's why WE are who we are. :thumbup:
 
It is an art from the most plain to the most ornate as far as I am concerned.

Look at a well made and designed non-ornate knife. The lines will flow artistically, it will fit the hand that does not happen by accident or by craft alone. I guess these folks don't consider sculpture an art either.

Like many others here I own a few "art" knives, bejeweled, be-filed, be engraved etc. etc. etc. It takes an artist and a craftman to bring all those elements together and make them work/flow with the knife.
If I tried to do it, it would look like it was designed by a gypsy and owned by a pimp.

I suggest getting in touch with John L. Jenson who has spent much time giving talks across the U.S. regarding knives as art. His website would be a great start.
 
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