Knives Best Suited to Batoning

C

coote

Joined
Apr 3, 2006
Messages
1,465
When I first started visiting this forum, I was perplexed with all the discussion on batoning. This is something that I seldom did with my outdoors knife, and I wondered by folks seemed to be obsessed with it. Why didn't they carry an axe or a machete?

Now I'm obsessed.

A knife that can withstand all manner of batoning is a strong, reliable knife.

I've brought this subject up following my thread on 'splitting an animal carcase' where it became apparent that batoning may work well for splitting the backbone and separating the chops. Please forgive me if I seem to be harping on. I just want to gather all the information that I can so I thought I'd approach it from a new angle.

So now I want a strong knife for the job and I'm keen to hear your thoughts.

Thinking back, I realize that I have batoned before. I was once in a job where we worked on ventilation systems where there was quite a bit of sheetmetal work involved. Several times I used my Mercator folder to make a hole through the sheetmetal on a building site. I would simply drive it through the metal with a hammer by hitting the base of the metal handle, and then I'd hammer down on the back of the knife. I think I may have broken a knife doing this, but it is amazing how much punishment these comparatively brittle knives would take. Here is a pic of these great little knives:
Mercator.jpg


Looking at the test-to-destruction videos on You Tube, it seems that some well-respected blades can be broken without too much effort. So while some knives have a reputation for toughness, it seems that some might break while chopping or batoning.

When striking the blade immediately above the object being chopped, there is little chance that the blade will fail. But when the blade is buried in the object and the blows have to be made to one side, the knife is more likely to break. When splitting a carcase the blows would have to be made outside the carcase....not directly down on top of the cutting area.

I was thinking that maybe a Becker BK7 or something like it could make a reliable knife for batoning.

What economical knife would you recommend for batoning?

Thanks for humoring me.... best wishes.... Coote.
 
honestly any full tang knife will take a baton... Most destruction tests do not depict actual baton stress, as I imagine none of us will need to hamer into a cinder block in the woods. as long as you are concious of your angle and avoid overly knotted super hard wood you can pick your poison and be safe.
 
The destruction tests you must take with a grain of salt. Especially when using metal on metal contact.
 
Yes, I'm inclined to agree about the destruction tests. I think that technique is important. Like Stickman said in a previous post, he used a deadblow mallet for his baton. To me that would apply less sudden shock. And Desmobobs Quebec guide must have had a successful technique even though he was hammering with a hatchet. I think that the blows should be applied as close to the cutting area as possible....and they shouldn't be sharper/stronger than necessary to get the job done.

I wonder how Evbouret and his buddies regard the Dexter Russel Fish Splitter as a batoning tool. I'm inclined to think that something like this could be adequate if used carefully.

Thanks for your thoughts.
 
Full tang helps but it isn't necessary. I'm mixed. I've batonned all the knives I have bought. Actually the knife I used to own, but gave it away (in tact) that saw the most batoning was a hidden tang buck 119 special. That was when I first joined here and I spent that summer forgoing an axe in favor of the knife to see if it could be done. Over that summer I gained a lot of confidence in the technique.

Another thing that I learned that seems counter intuitive is that thicker is not necessarily better. Basically I find 1/8" to be about optimum but I've used 3/32" without problem and also use 3/16" readily enough. If find that the amount of force you need to pound on your knife is proportional to its thickness, at lease for tough to split wood. So 1/4" knife, while very strong, also has to suffer very hard hits in order to sink that fat bevel into the wood. For many of my knives, 1/8" thickness seems to be a really good compromise between rigidity and ease of batoning.

I also prefer a full flat grind plus convex edge for batoning. I don't have enough experience with full convex grind knives of different thicknesses to really compare this to full flat + convex edge.

Longer knives are easier to baton that knives that are just slightly longer than whatever it is you are batoning. I think that one is obvious.

Finally, batoning requires common sense. Some types of wood will split readily. Other pieces can be highly knotted and be extremely resistant to splitting. Just because you commence batoning a piece of wood doesn't mean you have to finish the job. If you are pounding away and not getting anywhere, rather than stepping up your force consider abandoning the task. Do you really need that piece of wood?

P.S. I have found that wood that is difficult to baton is also difficult to split with an axe. If you really need to split that stuff than a wedge and maul is the best way to go.
 
Thanks for the welcome & comments from Canada.

Everything you wrote seems sensible to me Kgd. I think I may have read an article on batoning by you.... Field and Stream maybe. Good stuff thanks.

I've only ever batoned with relatively thin blades. Except for when I've used a brush-hook blade for cutting the tops out of oil drums.
 
I don't split any wood unless I absolutely have to, did to much of it as work to do it fun. However I have a knife that I made from a 1 1/2 tall Power Hacksaw blade which is only about 3/32 thick with a seven inch blade, it works very well and is really easy to drive through wood. It has a 6 inch long handle, the blade is actually 7 1/2 inches.
 

Attachments

  • JK knives 194.jpg
    JK knives 194.jpg
    103.8 KB · Views: 50
I sure have been thinking about these topics a bunch lately, Coote.
Your pig processing information was very helpful. When I baton I usually use my 17 3/4" HI WWII model khukuri. I carry it under my left armpit in an old piece of web gear suspenders. It's quick accessibility and comfort on a long walk when I carry it this way, even over a heavy wool jacket.
IMO the differential HT of the 1095(IIRC) allows it to flex when it needs to, especially when struck with a baton. At least so far, for me:)

Mark
 
All good comments thanks.

I'd temporarily forgotten about froes. I think I might have an old froe blade somewhere, but I think it is really quite thick.... an ideal wedge to split shingles, but possibly a bit thick to split a carcase. Certainly good food for thought. The handle at right angles would make a great lever for the splitting action and to help hold the blade on track. It wouldn't look as cool as a BK7 hanging on my belt though, and I bet it would be lousy for skinning. The handle configuration helps suggest that a knife used for batoning might be easier to keep on track when the handle is wider and easier for the operator to rotate to keep it on line.

Power hacksaw blades. As a fitter, I often broke these into sections to make scrapers and blades. The high speed steel really held a good edge once I'd sharpened it. The tools I made were relatively brittle, yet I often used them as chisels or wedges to good effect. I generally always wore safety glasses though. If anything was going to break in service, a high speed steel hacksaw blade would be one of the first to shatter. Yet, used carefully, tools made of this stuff lasted well. Perhaps your blade is a high carbon one Udtjim, but either way I reckon that old power hacksaw blades are a great resource for home brew knives. Another good source of blade material for me has been heavy bandsaw blades discarded by a sawmill.

Khukuris. I've been impressed with the ones I've used, and certainly that differential heat treating does appeal me... and makes perfect sense. I realize the angled blade makes this style of knife a tremendous chopper, but I have been a bit frustrated with the angle for some tasks. I'm hoping the Tamang Chaura with the straighter blade (that is speeding its way to me now) will be better. I guess behind all my questioning on this forum is my inner desire to find the one ideal blade that does all. Even if I did find such a blade I would not feel 'secure' having only one blade anyway. So really I should give myself a slap and be content with a khukuri for chopping, a sensible folder for townie use, and a nice little fixed blade for general bush work and hunting. And maybe a longer straight blade for batoning those carcases if I find that I'm not accurate enough with the khukuri.

One big advantage of the batoning method is its relative accuracy compared to swinging a chopping tool.

On reflection I have to say that the old Cold Steel Bushman should be one of the best batoning blades around considering the relative blade thickness and the proven ruggedness of these knives.
 
My ChopWeiler is definitely my battoning machine, I show it no mercy and it just laughs !

PC190008.jpg


PC190013.jpg
 
Looks nice. I Googled 'Chopweiler' and found that it would cost me nearly 400 New Zealand dollars though. I'd certainly like one of those, but alas it is too hard to justify at this stage. I suppose they come with a really good sheath too.
 
coote said:
All good comments thanks.

I'd temporarily forgotten about froes. I think I might have an old froe blade somewhere, but I think it is really quite thick.... an ideal wedge to split shingles, but possibly a bit thick to split a carcase. Certainly good food for thought. The handle at right angles would make a great lever for the splitting action and to help hold the blade on track. It wouldn't look as cool as a BK7 hanging on my belt though, and I bet it would be lousy for skinning. The handle configuration helps suggest that a knife used for batoning might be easier to keep on track when the handle is wider and easier for the operator to rotate to keep it on line.
Click to expand...

I was being a bit of a wise guy when I posted that link;) Froes were traditionaly made of mild steel and there was an old saying (dull as a froe) And 'No' There not as cool on your belt as a BK7:)
 
A froe is a bladed tool that is batoned. Wise guy or not, it is still worth having in the thread for anybody searching in the future.

I'll bet a longer version of your snub-nosed Wharncliffe would be excellent for batoning work.
 
With proper technique, you can baton almost any blade without damaging your knife. I've batoned Case peanuts and a mini-trapper before, just to test this theory. It worked, no problem. The best knife that I own for batoning is my Busse FBMLE- it's a monster. A bit spendy, however, at around $750- $1,000 USD these days on the secondary market- it's worth every penny.

Another great knife to baton with is the Bark River Bravo-1 (or Bravo-2, and Gunny, I would assume). The bullet-shaped blade profile makes it a splitting machine!
 
I don't think you could ever break a 10" tramontina machete while batonning. It's not quite a knife but I don't regard it as a machete. I've bent mine at 45 degrees from handle to tip and it doesn't show any signs of abuse. I bet I could bend it even further and it wouldn't snap, only take a permanent bend. I'll have to try some heavy batonning on it to see what happens.
 
beckers, RATS, and ka-bars all should work and not kill your wallet!

i would suggest a convex edge with a saber grind...my brkt golok (full convex) seems too wide sometimes.

i have batoned every knife i planned on keeping. mainly so that if i needed to i knew i could. technique varies on the knife being used....i have one beast knife that i know wont break (scrapyard sod)that i usually use since i have no axe/hatchet but ive batoned my moras, fiddleback and SAK OHT no preblemo....only one i havent is my Grip551. ...that being said im looking at getting a wetterlings asap! :)
 
Last edited:
I have a Bark River Gameskeeper which looks fairly similar to the Bravo. While it surely looks sturdy I would be reluctant to hammer it because it is a current favorite. I guess I have to toughen up.

Yep Chris, I reckon that a decent machete would be great for batoning. Not too thick, and not too hard. (Not too expensive either). It has a decent length of blade for carcase splitting, and a relatively big handle for keeping the cut on course.

Beckers & Ka-bars seem to be commonly available, but I haven't seen many Rats around. The ones I've seen look good though. I went to the Swamp Rat website and they only seemed to have one model for sale.... and that was too big for me. Maybe I didn't find the right button to click on.
 
by RATS i meant Randall Adventure Training...RAT :)

you dont see many for sale on the secondary market because they are awesome :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top