Knives/blades of Africa?

Chiro75

Chiro75

Joined
Feb 4, 1999
Messages
5,786
This has nothing to do with HI or khukuris, but this group of Forumites seems more knowledgeable in this type of thing, so I posted here. Anyway, I was wondering why there is a lack of recognition for blades traditional to Africa? For example, we know India and Nepal have the khukuri in all its wonderful forms, we have the myriad of blades of Japan and China, USA can claim the Bowie, Scottish have the dirk(?), Polynesians claim the Kris, Scimitar from the Middle East, etc etc etc. Trouble is I have never seen pics or heard of native African knives. Why is this? Do they not exist, or are they not good enough to bother with or what?

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My Custom Kydex Sheath pagehttp://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/knifehome.html
Palmer College of Chiropractic
On Two Wheels
 
Chiro75,

Have you checked out these books?
- "Swords & Hilt Weapons" by Peter Connely
- "Weapons: an international encyclopedia from 5000 BC to 2000 AD" by The Diagram Group.

Both of these have sections on African weapons. The one by Connelly has nice color pictures as well as detailed text - some of these African weapons are really unique looking. This book also has a color photo of the lion-head khukuri in V&A Museum which is the basis of HI's Hanuman Khukuri. Well worth a look! The one by the Diagram Group is a general overview and has detailed sketches of a variety of bladed weapons - good info. I picked them both at Barnes & Noble some time ago.

Hope that helps.

- Sonam
 
No, I haven't seen those books. Thanks! I guess my question is more why African patterns or knife style indiginous to Africa aren't as popular as these other I mentioned? I'm sure that the African continent is full of knives of various styles, but why not the popularity that has been achieved by the like of the khukuri and the tanto, for example?

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My Custom Kydex Sheath pagehttp://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/knifehome.html
Palmer College of Chiropractic
On Two Wheels
 
:
Steve;for world wide knives and edged weapons you might like this place.
Someone passed it to me a while back and I have found it interesting and informative. There is a forum there to,although it is a very slow one.
http://www.vikingsword.com/ethsword/

There are some African Broadswords pictured there and I would have never realized that the African people would have had such a thing. The Hunga Munga is also an interesting tool.
smile.gif



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>>>>---¥vsa---->®
The civilized man sleeps behind locked doors in the city while the naked savage sleeps (with a knife) in a open hut in the jungle.
 
I only have an impression of two African weapons, one is a funky looking throwing hatchet/axe/knife called, I kid you not, Bunga-wanga.

Then there is the spear from Shaka Zulu of course. That was a great series BTW, loved the look on the enemie's face when they realized Shaka's men weren't going to throw their spears, but charge with it.

 
A customer and pal recently sent me "Book of Swords" by Burton which has a fairly scholarly section on swords of Africa.

Uncle Bill
 
Yup! Uncle Bill, should've added that one to the list too. Can't seem to recall, does Ewart Oakeshott also cover African weapons in his "Archaeology of Weapons"? Haven't gotten round to reading these two since I bought them recently.

- Sonam

[This message has been edited by gtkguy (edited 30 July 1999).]
 
Chiro --- I have some knives I got in Morocco that I have pix of. If you want I will e-mail them to you.

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I think Chiro has enough to keem him busy for an hour or two. Good helpful forumites!

Uncle Bill
 
Sonam, I'm too bushed to give it a good look, but Oakeshott's Archaeology doesn't seem to have much outside European area though it does show an illustration of a Sudanese sword hilt from the 1700's under chapter 7, (Migration Period) and may have other references to weapons outside that area. It lists the kukri, kopis, etc., but I can hardly keep my eyes open right now.

Yvsa, turned out they were having the Bitteroot Valley pow-wow and I caught it as they were wrapping up on Sunday about 4 PM. Got a couple Kiowa Gourd Dance tapes. Oh, and some wedges for the eye of my Saxon axe ( obligatory edged reference ).
 
:
Jay I have a couple of knives from Morrocco too. They are both hand forged,curved,sharp pointy things with some nice brass inlay.One of them has a rather nasty 14 1/2" blade that also has some nice simple file work on it. The handles and sheaths are chip carved wood.The long one regretfully has the end broken off the sheath. I think I paid $20.00 for it at a gun show.I have no idea what they are worth. Just another interesting blade from overseas.I can't see much use for them other than as weapons.

Hey Rusty!! Glad to see you made it back safely.The Kiowa was the originators of the Gourd Dance if you didn't already know that.I have a couple of Gourd Dance tapes.I find it easier to recognize more individual songs on them rather than some of the general dance songs. If you get a chance pick one up by Yellow Spotted Pony of the trick songs. Talk about confusing.They are _Not Good_ to listen to while driving,makes you want to slam on the brakes.
smile.gif

I know would love your axe!!




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>>>>---¥vsa---->®
The civilized man sleeps behind locked doors in the city while the naked savage sleeps (with a knife) in a open hut in the jungle.
 
Sounds like some interesting knives and dances. Yvsa and Rusty if you ever get a chance to watch the Sherpa-Tibetan dances (sometimes they will have a short clip on Discovery channel or similar) you may be surprised at how much they resemble some of the American Indian dances. Music, too.

Uncle Bill
 
:
Uncle Bill I saw a segment on the discovery channel the other night about the X-Creatures. Yeti being one of them. I feel after listening to what little was said about the Old Sherpa Religion that many things were similiar there too.
The people talking and some of the clothing and such is very similiar to the Cherokee of long ago. Even the houses. Most people didn't/don't know that the Cherokee lived in regular houses.and only lived in some of the more temporary things like wigwams and such when we were hunting.
We have been badly sterotyped and when anyone sees someone in real Cherokee dress they aren't satisfied. They want to see the Plains Indin style with the big feather headressses.


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>>>>---¥vsa---->®
The civilized man sleeps behind locked doors in the city while the naked savage sleeps (with a knife) in a open hut in the jungle.
 
Bill, this is off topic, but you and the forumites might appreciate it.

Yvsa, had breakfast yesterday in Winnemucca, at a Basque place. Waitress looked like some Portagees* I grew up with, so I asked if she was Basque. Wrong. Shoshone, for LOL. Someone wrote that there are more variations between bulls of the same breed than there are between breeds. For that matter, there was more difference between individual pairs of Wranglers of the same size than between them and the next size. Even saw a blue-eyed blonde dancer at the pow-wow that said he was Iroquois.

Personally, the Jackass genes appear to surface more regularly in me than the Magyar, Irish, Hugenot, Scottish etc.

You've heard the old joke about the husband coming home and the lover hiding behind the woodpile to pull on his clothes? Just glancing at genealogy gives me the strong suspicion that it's a wonder there was room left for any wood in most family's woodpiles.

*I figure that when you can cook an ethnic group's traditional recipes better than most of them can, you can talk with them like a relative. My Uncle Costa ( Portuguese ), for one.

And regarding axes, I think it was Oakeshott who stated that few medieval examples survived as they were tools used between fighting as well as for weapons.

[This message has been edited by Rusty (edited 31 July 1999).]
 
I know this is not what you have in mind, Chiro, but I thought you and the others might enjoy seeing some modern African knives. Here are three custom Peter Bauchop Alley Cats (D2 steel, 8 1/4" blades, sharpened swedge) that I picked up in March in South Africa.

Alley%20Cats-small.jpg


The picture doesn't do them justice at all. I had Peter use three different native African hardwoods for the handles. Top to bottom, these are: Wild Olive, Red Ivory, and Tambotie (Tambotie has a fragrance like cedar.)

I just started making leather sheaths for these and will try to post better pics in the General Discussion forum when I am done.

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Cheers,

--+Brian+--



[This message has been edited by bcaffrey (edited 02 August 1999).]
 
You're right, Rusty, checked up Oakeshott this weekend, and his book is mostly on European weapons.

- Sonam
 
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