knives for soldiers- appropriate steel

[elementfe]

I'm making EDC knives for soldiers in my son's Infantry unit.
A big concern is ease of sharpening in the field- I'm not sure that a lot of the steels we're using are appropriate, and I don't have the experience with a variety of steels to give a really good answer about which steels CAN be sharpened with a handy ceramic or whetstone.
I know at this point that I can make a knife from 440c that won't rust, will cut, and will stand up to abuse should it come to that- CPM 154 is tougher, is it going to be frustrating for these lads to maintain?

These are working soldiers, and I don't want to assume that they have access to any kind of decent sharpening gear.
Anyone care to chime in with info that will help select steels?

Thanks for any thoughts on this

 

[Josh Mason]

I think it's all about geometry. If you make your knives with a pretty fine edge, it really shouldn't matter what steel they are for EDC. I'd go for the cpm154/ats-34. It's a nice stainless steel that's easy to keep clean, and will take and keep a razor edge. Pretty easy on the maker's pocket too. Rockwell hardness is important too. Somewhere between 58 and 61, and a pretty thin edge should be pretty easy to maintain, and give good performance. Heat treaters like Peter's Heat treating can make this very accurate.

 

[thegeek574]

i think that it really changes based on the environment. if they are going to sea, n960co would bee good becuase of the low rustability. if they are in the sandpit, then i would go for a patina on a carbon steel becuase of the usually low humidity and feasibility of sharpening. also, adding a 15 dollar pull-through sharpener would do wonders. (I know you guys don't like it, but would rather it was shorter or duller than a butter knife when he came home?

 

[elementfe]

Sandpit, most likely. Good thought about the dryness, perhaps O-1 might be the thing, but I'm pretty comfortable with 440c. It's all about what's rugged and easy to live with.

 

[thegeek574]

Ooh, just had a thought. how about AEB-L? it is very similar to sandvic 13c26, takes an very fine edge, is easy to resharpen, and is relatively inexpensive.

 

[Nathan the Machinist]

I've been contemplating the same questions and was leaning towards 3V and A2. The A2 is quite tough, holds a great edge and is relatively easy to sharpen, and 3V holds an edge really well in both rough and abrasive conditions, though is a pain to sharpen. Anyone have any thoughts on these?


...sorry for the hijack...

 

[1066vik]

there's nothing wrong with 440c -- especially if you have a supply and are comfortable working with it.

 

[daizee]

send out nail buffers with 'em. $1ea, convex maintenance.
A2 sounds lovely for low-humidity, but if you already like 440c, why not?

-Daizee

 

[Josh Mason]

I've used alot of A2, and it's a great steel. It will rust on you if you breathe on it though....lol.

 

[Rotte]

I carried an A2 knife while I was in Afghanistan. No rusting issues.

I also carried a diamond sharpening rod and small stone. I saw a lot of guys carrying small carbide "v" sharpeners. The PX's overseas carry a couple different kinds of sharpeners.

If you like CPM154, then by all means use that.

 

[james terrio]

I've been contemplating the same questions and was leaning towards 3V and A2. The A2 is quite tough, holds a great edge and is relatively easy to sharpen, and 3V holds an edge really well in both rough and abrasive conditions, though is a pain to sharpen. Anyone have any thoughts on these?
...sorry for the hijack...

My personal choice is 3V with a thin edge and a diamond "stone" in a pocket on the sheath. It's so tough you can grind it really thin and still use it hard.

Back to the OP's question, I'd go with CPM-154 or better still CTS-XHP, or O1 for easy-peasy sharpening. Depending mostly on how much edge-retention and corrosion resistance you want. Diamond stones either way. The little DMT pocket ones are fairly cheap and work very well.

440C is sooo 1985 But it does make a decent knife.

 

[kimberfan]

i'd do something in A2 or O-1, heck 52100 or 1095 as well, carbon steel is tough and thats always nice

convex the edge and send a piece of 1200 grit sand paper with it for maintenance heck sand paper is cheap enough send a 600 grit, 800 grit and 1200 grit pieces, doesnt have to be big just a little 3 x 2 chunk will do, and right up an instruction on how to sharpen them with it, would do wonders i think

 

[duffy99]

Most soldier's want a blade that will cut for a long time without having to be sharpened , can be abused and not to big ie 9" or under OAL .Only young inexperienced troops get the big ole knives and you can tell who's green or not by the kit they carry, S30V or S35VN or CPM154 is what I'd want in the field . Coated or a rough satin finish, stuff does rust over there very easily from the slightest moisture. . After a 5 minute rain we had to clean all the machine guns on our vehicles since they rusted instantly and always dismounted them after that. A primary edge that can be touched up with a pocket diamond sharpener would be good since the average grunt isn't going to be thinking about sharpening his knife often. Weapon/kit /self is the saying but knives generally never made it into the maintenance except to scrape baked on carbon off machine gun gas plugs and open rations and boxes. It should be tough enough to take abuse but still light as possible since every ounce counts when your climbing mud walls and jumping over wadi's all day.

 

[elementfe]

Thanks everyone, and especially for the ones who did the job over there, for the ideas, lots of steels that would work, and a good reminder that blade geometry is such a big factor.
Andy

 

[Mitchell Knives]

CPM154 should be no problem to maintain in the field.

If in doubt, include a small diamond stone with their knife.

 

[ERIK KNIVES]

Duffy mentioned coated or rough satin. Bead/sand blasted may be an option as well. I think the point is that it should not reflect light well or at all.

 

[Mountain Bayonet]

For what its worth I had an older style bayonet (m10) that I bought on ebay before I deployed. I used it more than I should have and still have it today. I just looked and have no idea what steel it is made from. I sharpened it with a cheap pull through and a wetstone someone would let me borrow. Several unmarried soldiers spent over $300 for fancy ninja knives from various companies. I have no idea what they were made out of but several of them broke albeit one was shot and has an excuse. The company would not warranty that knife. I hate to be so vague as I am sure most want to know brands but this was five years ago in Ramadi. In short what you are doing for the unit is great and I think every platoon has someone who can sharpen anything for a can/pack/magazine etc.

 

[Hengelo_77]

Add a pouch on the sheeth with a diafold DMT sharpener.
You could make the sheeth so that they can strop on the sheeth.

 

[Justin King]

USAKnifemaker sells credit card sized diamond "stones", just a piece of sheet metal with diamond abrasive on one side, for about 10$ IIRC. This is probably lighter and easier to carry than just about any other sharpening setup I can think of, so there is really no reason why field sharpening of high-V wonder steels needs to be a problem.

Given this, I can't think of any reason not to use 3v, unless it will be used in or near saltwater, in which case a stainless might be preferable.

 

[Drew Riley]

Duffy mentioned coated or rough satin. Bead/sand blasted may be an option as well. I think the point is that it should not reflect light well or at all.

I would recommend this on stainless only, as a high carbon steel will rust all the more easily.