Knives in cars in CALIF

G

gester

Joined
Oct 4, 1998
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I want to mount a fixed blade (single or double edged) in my car. The only reference I can find is Calif Penal Code 653K that speaks to switchblades in a car.

Anyone know about fixed blades, single or double edged, in a car?

Gester
 
In CA you can not "carry" a concealed fixed blade. The law says nothing about transport. However, be very carefull. The law does not stop you from getting arrested and spending several thousand dollars defending your rights in court.

You may want to consider some type of emergancy extraction axe made for the purpose of mounting in vehicles. They are basically high tech tomahawks. That would be better IMO than a knife in ANY possible situation you might find yourself in, plus it is alot less likely to raise the eyebrows of local LEOs.
 
I have an old Toyota 4-Runner and I live in S.Cal. I keep an old $19.95 survival fixed blade in a rubbermaid type trunk along with other emergency supplies which is kept shut and bungeed down in the back of my SUV, in the cargo area. While the vehicle is in motion, the cargo area is accessible only to my rear passengers. Would having that fixed blade back there be enough to get me in trouble, if I were ever to be pulled over for a traffic violation and searched?
 
Some Courts have ruled that a knife in a vehicle is "concealed" if it is not in plain sight. This would include: in glovebox, in armrest, under seat, under floormat, etc.

If it is mounted alongside the pedals, or onto the door, that'd be a "grey area", as a LEO could not see it from outside the vehicle, although it is not covered.

A knife on the backseat covered with a towel or jacket is also "concealed."

I have seen knives strapped to rollbars and embedded in the console so the handle is exposed -- both of which should be permitted.

Another thought is to mount it outside the vehicle . . . I've seen machetes and bayonets mounted under rear bumpers on several occasions. No-one ever looks there except Customs -- and if you're inside the vehicle, you certainly cannot access it, so it would likely be considered almost the same as if it were locked in your trunk.

Daggers (double-edged) cannot be concealed in CA.
 
Bucktool, no that is nothing to worry about. There is no state law against the transport of any fixed blades in CA. The law in question is CPC12020. It states that the concealed "carry" of fixed blades is unlawfull. In many states the laws read concealed "on or about". CAs law does not.

For what its worth, you would have to be stopped and then consent to a search for it even to be an issue.

Never ever consent to a search and never tell the officer if you have any knives or guns in your vehicle, even if he asks (and they always do). Remember that you have constitutional protection from such questions (5th amendment).

If a officer asks to search your vehicle, be as polite as you can but refuse. If he starts getting froggy on you, advise him that you will be very happy to allow a search after he gets a telephonic warrent for your vehicle.

CHP does not even normally bother trying for a search. They are there to write citations and move on to the next vehicle. City PDs and Sheriffs on the other hand want the arrest and will do all the fishing it takes to get it. Just don't bite the hook. He will tell you that if you refuse they can just search your vehicle anyways. Nonsense, if they had cause for a search they would not be trying to get you to consent.

In my adult life I have been stopped by LEOs 5 times. During three of those I was asked for a search consent. I refused all three times. The LEOs were upset but took no further action. One even let me off with a warning :D

The key is to be polite while protecting your rights.
 
Thanks for setting me straight, Mr.Clark.

I'd love to watch an episode of "Cops" with you and hear your commentary during the show. I've seen too many people on that show consenting to searches because they didn't know any better.
 
For what it's worth, my uncle got arrested in CA (Riverside) after being stopped for running a stop sign, the leo asked to search his vehicle, he said yes, they found an 11" bladed bowie under the driver's seat and stuffed him. I live in Colorado, and the law here (as i understand it and I could be wrong) is that you can have a knife concealed in your vehicle as long as it is in a standard "cargo" area such as glove box, or console. If it is stuffed under the seat or hidden somewhere where you wouldn't normally carry "cargo" then you have problems.
 
You often see on "COPS" that the police ask to search a car and say if you decline that they will just make you wait until they get a warrant.

Can they do this? Is there some sort of time limit on how long they hold you while they try to get a warrant?

gester
 
The US Supreme court has defined arrest as any action the makes the suspect believe that he/she is no longer free to leave an area or situation.

While an officer can legally detain you, it is technically an arrest since you are no longer have freedom of movement.

This is a theoritical situation and things may not turn out this way, but consider this.

You are stopped and detained (arrested by USSP ruling). During a search the officer pulls up an illegal item and places you under "arrest" at that point. If the officer can not prove prob cause for the detainment, then the arrest would be illegal and anything turned up after that is "fruit from the poison tree" and can not be used in court.

Normally what you see on COPs is bravado used to make good TV. Generally that threat of a warrent is just that, a threat. They want you to allow a search and put pressure on you any way they can.

Remember if they had PC for a warrent they would not need your consent nor would they even need to get the warrent.
 
I don't mean to spend too much time veering off topic but... In the case above
when can you walk/drive away? I know that failing the "attitude test" won't help, but is the line so fuzzy and you should just wait for the police to get tired and let you go?



Gester
 
You can leave at any time unless they say otherwise.

Bit of caution, walking feel free to leave when you feel like it. Driving is differant. I have to get a little detailed so you can fully understand what is going on.

When you are issued a ticket, you are really being arrested and released at the same time. Your fine amount is the bail. If you don't show up to court to fight the charge then your bail is forfeit.

Because the officer is in effect arresting you for "insert traffic violation here", you are not free to leave the scene (you are under arrest automatically). That does not however give the officer the right to search your vehicle. Since your vehicle is not party to the crime, the officer must have more cause than just the traffic violation to perform a search. That is unless you consent.

I know its really confussing and may seem to be splitting hairs, but the law is always about splitting hairs and its always in the details.
 
i was pulled over once, and when i opened my glove box to get my registration, out fell a benchmade fixed blade!

first words out of the cop's mouth "say, thats a big knife...mind if i take a look at it?"

i thought i was screwed, but no, he said it was fine as long as it wasnt double edged :)
i cary an aluminum bat in my jeep too, its "legal" as long as you have a baseball too, kind of a loophole, but LEO's tell me they wont bug you if the bat isnt the topic of searching to begin with
 
R.W.Clark said:
Never ever consent to a search and never tell the officer if you have any knives or guns in your vehicle, even if he asks (and they always do). Remember that you have constitutional protection from such questions (5th amendment).
The key is to be polite while protecting your rights.
Click to expand...


Excellent. :thumbup: :thumbup:
 
Many years ago when I was younger and more reckless, (I was nothing more than a kid, probably 19), I was in Florida and got pulled over for speeding. Technically, I suppose I was pulled over for racing, because the Infiniti G20 in the next lane and I decided to test out our 0-100mph acceleration. I won the race. The cops clocked me at 90mph, and suddenly I see two sets of blue lights in my rearview. So I pull over of course, and I hear the cops yelling at me (and the 3 friends I had in the car). The lawdogs were barricaded behind their opened doors with guns drawn. I couldn't believe it. The policemen were yelling "GET THE FUK OUT OF THE CAR!" so my friend Alan in the front passenger opens his door and they yell "GET THE FUK BACK IN THE CAR DUMBASS! ONLY THE DRIVER--GET OUT!" So...I got out. They kicked my feet apart and proceeded to search me, and then my 3 friends, and then the car. Even as a kid back then, I knew they weren't supposed to search me without my consent, but these cops didn't ask. The only asking they did was done by yelling and poiinting firearms. I suppose going 90mph with another car constitutes probable. I, being a fine southern gentlemen, was quite polite and cordial. In the end, they found my ancient fake ID, and 3 six packs in the trunk, and I failed a sobriety test despite being completely sober. I calmly explained to the policemen that I was not at all drunk, and that it was my plan to get drunk, if the officers would be so kind as to let me go. They cut my ID in half and took our beer and let us on our way, without a ticket. I suppose they didn't write me up becuase then they probably couldn't drink my beer. >8^)
 
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