Knives in modern times

thknives

thknives

KnifeMaker
Joined
Jul 9, 1999
Messages
187
I had a lengthy discussion with my girlfriend yesterday about knives in modern times.

We tried to figure out when knives got such a bad image and what are some of the causes that contribute to this.

Looking back in history, knives have always been there in one form or another.

What are your thought's on this?

Thomas

------------------
Haslinger Custom Knives
WWW.HASLINGER-KNIVES.COM
thknives@home.com
 
V-Gates Thomas...

One Word!

Hollywood!!!

Starting with "West Side Story"...

It's cool to see knives in movies,but the way they are portrayed is sickening..

You don't often see a knife used to save life or as a valuable tool,,instead as murder weapon...

It's the same thing that happened to the AK-47 the media always seems to use as their cliche..

ttyle

Eric..

------------------
On/Scene Tactical
Leading The Way In Quality Synthetic Sheathing
 
Sad but all too true. Hollywood sucks in regard to showing knives as useful. Well at least there was McGyver. I stopped in a mailboxes etc. to send out a trade knife. The kid behind the counter was wearing a clip. I asked about it and told him I collected knives. He said "I just bought it because I needed one around the store" Imagine that! A useful knife! And he is not even going to assault any girl scouts or old people!......
redface.gif
sorry. Knives in the media usually just get me bent out of shape.

------------------
Brian
The first knife was probably used to cut stuff.
 
The gang movies of the '50s sure didn't help. After all they are the cause of the Federal "switchblade" law. In addition to West Side Story mentioned by Normark, there was the Blackboard Jungle and Rebel Without a Cause. But what really did it IMHO was "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" and that sword fight with the Black Knight!

phantom4

phantom4

------------------
who dares, wins


 
I think it started with Hollywood movies and their influence on the media. Every time a violent crime occurs with a knife, people seem to blame the knife, not the criminal. The knife therefore becomes an object of evil and anyone who carries one must be up to no good. I've spoken to people who have this negative bias towards knives based on what they see in movies or TV. People need to realize that knives can be dangerous depending on what it's intended use is. I can hurt someone with a pen, pencil, wrench (spanner), or my car if I were so inclined. The object does not do the harm, the person behind it does when they commit an act of violence.

[This message has been edited by el cid (edited 04-24-2001).]
 
I think it's just that knives are less and less common in this day and age (I'm not talking 'bout kitchen knives). Let's face it, damn near everything you buy these days comes in "easy-to-open" packaging and in the past that was a big use of the common pocketknife. The fact is, while I consider it nuts to go out in the morning to face the world without a knife in my pocket, LOTS and LOTS of folks get by just fine. And because of this, the sheeple are less used to seeing any knives at all. If they were more common, there'd be less aversion to them. So do your part, guys, carry a knife. (I know, I know, I'm preachin' to the choir! :-)
 
I loath the day that one of the broadcast news magazines does a segement on knives. The imagery of Emerson wave opening, Ken Onion speed-safes and MT's double-actions will drive the sheeple into mega-quivers.

The 'need to get noticed' politicians knees will jerk mightily; and we know what will happen next.

While it takes effort and money to introduce brand new legislation, modified knife laws may sneak thru the backdoor. Since there are many pre-existing statues covering deadly weapons, all that may be required is a redefintion of existing laws to criminalize one-handed openers.

Few in the public are aware the news 'business' thrives on journalism awards. To win the Pulitzer prize(or similar self anoitment) will increase the stock of a news organization. If a laws are passed because of a news special project, the chances for the journalistic prize goes up. Oh, and don't forget the photo ops for all the politicians who made society safer.

I fear our knives are easy targets for this ego driven machine.
 
We know we have alot of creative talent on this site. Its a shame we haven't collectively come up with some ways to give knives a positive nudge. It would be nice, to put together a respectable tour package, that we can put on display at the NY Metropolitan Museam of Art, and other respected museams around the world.

Something that highlights the quality and art of decorative cutlery steel through the ages, and centers on knives as a form of folk art.
I'll put on my helmet and high boots since I know that most of us would like to come on strong on knife carry. But, taken as an incremental process, the first step should be to legitamize knives. then we can move on to specific knife applications and common usuage.

[This message has been edited by not2sharp (edited 04-24-2001).]
 
It is easy to blame the media, Hollywood or other things on the current trend.
One thing we tend to forget is that WE let it happen to us.

How often does one (especially makers) respond to a negative article in a news paper or magazine?

When is the last time that knife enthousiasts have been proactive and educated the public? I don't mean through magazines or knife related publications?

Sure this forum is great, but poeple who love knives are on it, so it is a easy convincing.

Carring of knives is sure good, but needs to be done in a apoprate manner. I still shake my head at the guy I saw in a supermarket with a large Rambo type knife straped to his side. While he is in his full rights to do this, he put off more poeple then did any good. After all he was probably out to jump over the isle and butcher a few Bananas down with the knife.
smile.gif


It is fairly easy to convince a magazine not to print very negative stuff about knives. One needs to voice his/her opinion and let them know that you cancel your subscribtion's. After all, they need your money to print such stuff.

I am not saying that you need to go out and do some bashing, just clear and focused messages that this is not being tollerated.

I have done this on occassion, and surprisingly enough I got more "ink" then the negative article. This is what counts.

I could go on....

Thanks for listening.

Thomas

------------------
Haslinger Custom Knives
WWW.HASLINGER-KNIVES.COM
thknives@home.com
 
Hollywood is responsible to a large degree, but it's older than that. Bowie knives and dirks have been villainized since the middle of the 19th century. Of course a pocket knife wasn't seen as vicious then, but many cities had laws against bowies and dirks.

Paul
 
I agree Hollywood, is the main cause. I also agree with Phantom4 on Monty Python flick. The knight could have stoped after the first arm went, instead of saying it was just a flesh wound! But no no no, oh no no no no he had to go on, he could have said pass, but no no no no, he had to keep going in stead! RKBA!
 
I think there's probably been a deep seated image of knives as especially pernicious weapons for the last few thousand years. Hollywood took this image and made it a hundred times worse though.

In Western cultures, it's seen as honorable to display your weapons before a fight. Since a knife can be easily concealed, it was viewed as a dishonorable, underhanded weapon. Hollywood went with that image of the knife and now, in the endless stream of action movies and TV shows that people watch, the bad guy is always the one to pull a knife when he's losing the fight.

Underhanded fighting isn't seen as dishonorable in all cultures though. In our culture, the term "backstabbing" means to attack someone unfairly. Interestingly, that's not the case everywhere. The Madurese, for example, have a custom called "carok" where you take revenge on, or settle a score with, someone who has deeply wronged or dishonored you. Carok usually involves sneaking up on your enemy and stabbing him in the back (or stomache or throat possibly). As a Human Rights Watch paper notes, "The Madurese have few compunctions about ensuring what other groups would consider a fair fight: many attacks are made from behind or against unarmed men. 'As long as the motive is honorable, there is no reason to regard the attack as cowardly...'".

------------------
Cerulean

"The hairy-armed person who figured out how to put an edge on a suitable rock made it possible for us to be recognizably human in the first place." - J.K.M.
 
In 1888 London, while some of the nastier details were held back at the time, and the few "witness" statements conflicted, the news media made sure everyone knew people were being killed with KNIVES. Consequently, anyone who used a knife in their profession was considered a potential Ripper... And although prostitutes were the sole targets, everyone walked in fear.

Certainly Hollywood has shown people using knives, but not only bad people. What about Davy Crockett, Dan'l Boone, Zorro, Xena, Sylvester Stallone, Arnold, Kurt Russell... on & on & on? Didn't Jim West use a little toe-blade every damned week to get out of some Poe-esque restraint? And though the people-slicing anti-villain in "Hannibal" was unsavory, did anyone really blame him?
 
you cant discount that knives have been used as weapons since the start of the tool age.

and im pretty sure most people who carry knives do so as a weapon rather than as a tool. i dont think theres many of those here though.

thats where the bad image comes from IMO, hollywood just emphasized and brought it to public attention. something like that

hmm, did spyderco actually go ahead with its lawsuit against the author of hannibal for the bad portrayal of its product ?

Daniel
 
i'll have to echo what thKnives has to say on this..
"It is easy to blame the media, Hollywood or other things on the current trend.
One thing we tend to forget is that WE let it happen to us."

after all we have the NRA for guns (or we once did, past few years it seems the 'R' now stands for rip-off) but it is there regardless and this gives gun owners some political weight to toss around.
so where is our political influence when it comes to the worlds oldest tool?

yes, it is true that the media is to blame for demonizing knives as evil killing machines, the devices of murderers and rapist. however it is we who are to blame for not taking a stand against it.
think back, those of you that can remeber, when hi cap mags were so cheap. can you also remeber hearing folks say that it will never happen? that "they" will never ban hi-cap mags.
think they will never impose even stricter regulations on knives?


------------------
Band-aid: my best friend at a knife show!
 
The Manson murders didn't help, with all the publicity surrounding the crime. I was told one time they used a Buck 110 as one of the murder instruments. Does any one know if this is true? I was just a lad when this happened.
 
Yes, the Mansons used mostly Buck 110's.


Other factors are at work here as well. There was a time (I think) that almost every person used and needed a knife (as a tool) almost every day of their life (outside the kitchen). At that time, no one freaked out about a knife because they had one of their own. Now that people can and do get along without a knife on them, they do not see knives as necessary tools. So the image of a knife (esp. in the city) is that of a weapon.

There was a time when people took responsibility for their own safety, because there was no one else to do it. Now, there's cops everywhere (except where you need them...) and many people don't feel the need to carry a weapon for self-defense. These people, now believing that a knife as a tool is unnecessary and a knife (or other weapon) for self-defense is unnecessary, are going to see any weapon as an offensive weapon, carried only by predators.


People see no need for a utility knife, people see no need for a defensive knife, people see the only need for a knife being to hurt somebody. People think that you and I are just like them. Therefore, you and I, with our knives, are out to hurt people.


------------------
Jason aka medusaoblongata
-----------------------
"Is not giving a need? Is not receiving mercy?" - Thus Spoke Zarathustra
"Cutting his throat is only a momentary pleasure and is bound to get you talked about." - Lazarus Long
"Knowledge is not made for understanding; it is made for cutting." - Michel Foucault

[This message has been edited by medusaoblongata (edited 04-25-2001).]
 
Hollywood has not HELPED. Mass media also has inflicted damage to the reputation of the knife. The evening news has to sensationalize any act of violence. Remember the OJ fiasco? The Kissing Crane stiletto took it in the shorts on that one! (Historically speaking, the stiletto or dirk has been looked upon as an assination tool.)

Myself, I'm always using my SAK at work. people call me "MacGuyver" because of it!

What is needed is better press of persons using knives for their intended purposes. How about the guy who fought off a Kodiak bear with his Buck?

The same goes for firearms. Some psycho shoots a person, and it's front page news. A person uses a legally obtained firearm to lawfully defend himself, and you'll never see it or hear about it.

Cerulean's comment about the Madurese struck a memory. In the movie "Midnight Express" there's a bit about stabbings in a Turkish Prison. If you stab someone above the waist, it's attempted murder. So "Turkish Revenge" is a blade in the gluteus maximus.

My $0.02 worth.

------------------
Glen AKA Centaur
"It does not do to leave a dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him."
- J. R. R. Tolkein
 
The local paper in my area does post when guns are used for good. One of the local pawn shop owners refused to sell a handgun to a man that had failed the background check. The man went to his car and came back with a sword and stabbed the store owner. The owner retreated to his office where he kept his .40. The BG cut the door down with the sword and caught a .40 in the chest.

Our papers praised the man for defending himself, set up a fund to pay for medical bills, and blamed the BG for the incident, not the sword. The sword wasn't even mentioned as an impliment of evil. They just brought it up to tell the story.

The BG died and the store owner suffered some pretty bad internal damage but survived.

Best part, the store owner also blew away those stories that said all pawnshops would sell guns to anyone. He's the biggest one around here and has a LARGE stock of firearms.

Not all media is bad, just the larger ones and the ones more interested in profits than facts.
 
By daytime I'm a civilian storesperson at a military base and carry and use and lend knives to be used (tested) on a daily basis.
For the last two days I've been taking a first aid course.
Today at 11:30 we did leg imobilizing splints. The teacher showed us her prefered knot to tie in the triangular bandages. Well it was lunch time before we new it and a few people could not get out of the teachers fancy knots.
You guessed it. I was carrying a folder in my pocket that I assembled lastnight. I looked down at a few hogtied fellow employies and said do you want out now? They all said yes. flick, snap, slice, slice, slice, slice. They were all free and we went for lunch.
The teacher stood there dumfounded and didn"t say a thing.
Thats why I carry a knife (knives) DAILY. The unexpected.

------------------
Robert
Flat Land Knife Works
rdblad@telusplanet.net
http://members.tripod.com/knifeworks/index.html
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top