Knives with so much potential, and poor execution?

res1cue

res1cue

Joined
Feb 2, 2010
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2,138
There have been so many knives that I feel like have been innovative and well designed, which have been neutralized by poor materials or poor manufacturing or poor design in other parts of the knives. The two for me that really come to mind are:

-CRKT M21/M16 series: I loved the full hilt design, and the Auto-lawks. With less holes, no serrations, beefier liner, and better steel, it really could have been a winner

-BM LFK: I had one and had really interesting design to accomodate a big blade without an enormous handle. A little shorter blade and a strong framelock could have made it a very solid and dependable knife.

What do you guys think are some knives that "could have been"?
 
I bought 3 CRKT knives when I started buying knives again a few years ago.......I agree with you 500%. I gave them away.
 
DPX Hest folder (1 & 2) has to make the list.

There was so much hype and excitement from the ESEE folder that got channeled into it, which built up to something huge.

Then came loads of production problems that continued through both iterations.
 
I think Ontario is up there. They use good steels, their machetes have been around forever, they are USA made products. They fall short on fit and finish, their sheaths are really not useable(certain models), often their edges are uneven, and I find that certain knives could have had a better heat treat.
Granted, Ontario attempts to make an affordable product, which they do. Their 2nd generation spec plus offerings seem to be better. The handle of their machetes needs a re-design. It's not that hard, just make a different mold, offer some micarta, or something. I can almost handle having to put an edge on them, but maybe more people would look at them if they came convexed and had easy to install micarta upgrades, Ka-Bar's Becker line pulls it off.
Ontario has reduced the quality of the RAT line of knives as well as Justin Gingrich's Ranger line. I admit my RD Hawk is built well, came with a good sheath, but the knives have blocky handles, and my edges weren't even at all.
 
For me, it's the Buck Vantage Pro. It has a classic design and excellent materials, with the Bos treated S30V, polished G10, and deep carry pocket clip. While people do get good ones from the factory, myself and many others have had annoying QC issues with the blade centering/pivot. Buck still seems to have trouble resolving this (which for me only required some locktite) as even ones made in 2010/2011 are still having problems. It's a shame because it's an excellent knife for the price.
 
res1cue said:
There have been so many knives that I feel like have been innovative and well designed, which have been neutralized by poor materials or poor manufacturing or poor design in other parts of the knives. The two for me that really come to mind are:

-CRKT M21/M16 series: I loved the full hilt design, and the Auto-lawks. With less holes, no serrations, beefier liner, and better steel, it really could have been a winner

-BM LFK: I had one and had really interesting design to accomodate a big blade without an enormous handle. A little shorter blade and a strong framelock could have made it a very solid and dependable knife.

What do you guys think are some knives that "could have been"?
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Both the M16 and M21 were two of my all time favorite folders simply because of the overall design , like you I wished again and again for upgraded and better versions , CRKT used to use finer materials like titanium and ATS34 then for some reason decided that people don't like those.. ? I gave my M16 to a co-worker and the M21 to my brother , both of which still carry and use those knives.

Lets talk about Kershaw. I love Kershaw , IMO they make the absolute best knife for the dollar out there , ounce for ounce their knives easily stack up to the competition at a fraction of the cost. However on many models they choose these ridiculous looking pocket clips , JYDII for example.. I scored a Ti/SG2 blem for a wonderful price and I will stake my pickup trucks pink slip on that knife being one of the best production knives ever built EVER. Its ergonomics are pure perfection , it's blade is the epitome of the perfect slicer. It's execution in Ti is a wonder to behold and then there's the pocket clip that looks like it fell off of Godzillas back !! They have done this on other models too. Perfect knife , aside from the gaudy clip that screams "look at me !!"

:)

Tostig
 
I vote for CRKT as well. There are some designs I like, but have poor fit and finish and cheaper steel.
 
Misanthropia said:
For me, it's the Buck Vantage Pro. It has a classic design and excellent materials, with the Bos treated S30V, polished G10, and deep carry pocket clip. While people do get good ones from the factory, myself and many others have had annoying QC issues with the blade centering/pivot. Buck still seems to have trouble resolving this (which for me only required some locktite) as even ones made in 2010/2011 are still having problems. It's a shame because it's an excellent knife for the price.
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Amen. And add to the blade centering (that can at least be adjusted) a very thin liner that -- brand new, out of the box -- is already halfway across the tang. Very disappointing.
 
Kershaw Outcast.
- Of all of the tough, impact resistant, and less expensive tool steels on the market, they chose D2 for a large chopper blade.
- Thin blade, if you need a machete, use a full size machete. The Outcast design is for chopping and it does well for a thinner blade but would do better at 3/16"-1/4". Way to much recurve, PITA to sharpen(and D2 remember).
- HANDLES THAT TAPER TOWARD THE POMMEL TEND TO SLIP.
- F&F - at least on the one I had, the top swedge(which was meaningless IMO) was way overground on one side. Edge was not sharp out of box, did not shave, cut paper or cardboard(I know, I know:rolleyes:)
- The sheath. The sheath itself was pretty good, little to no rattle, good retention, sturdy. The belt "clip" however SUCKED, carried way to high, the handle was almost in my armpit, slid around on my belt, was a PITA to put on/take off, and that tiny little piece of material tore off after a short time.


Overall: To short to function well as a machete, to light and thin to be a truly effective chopper/batoner. Would prefer thicker stock .188" - .25", a straight edge, and either no swedge or a more pronounced swedge. While D2 is an great steel, it does not belong in large chopper IMO. Would prefer A2, 3V, S7, or even 5160. Handle should be wider at the pommel, than at the hilt. Sheath needs a low carry option and a Tek-lock, or nylon belt-loop w/ quick release. Would like a sharper edge from factory. I think Ive held on to that for a while. By the way this is not a Kershaw bashing, I like Kershaw blades and have owned/used many, and will continue to own and use them; Boa, Mini-Boa, Chive, Scallion, Blur, Avalanche, Skyline, Leek(many Leeks) love'em all. Outcast was just a big "Swing an'a Miss" IMHO.
 
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what amazes me is that some of these knives can go from good to great with just a little change, why wouldn't a manufacturer just make the change and bump the price up $5?
 
jimnolimit said:
what amazes me is that some of these knives can go from good to great with just a little change, why wouldn't a manufacturer just make the change and bump the price up $5?
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Every Manufacturer has a flub now and then. Kershaw had the Outcast(IMO), Cold Steel had the Kudu, Pocket Bushman, Blackrock Hunter, Paradox, Ring Dagger, Nightshade Series, Double Agent/s, Counter Point Folder, Spyderco had the Woodlander series(again IMO, see Outcast comment for reasons), even Busse had the Nuclear Seahorse incident. Some designs are a just bad idea that can't be made better and just get worse from there. Also, a higher price/cost is little to no indication of quality.
 
Kershaw. So many awesome designs, and they go and beadblast the crap out of 14C28N steel making it a rust magnet. I've pretty well given up on uncoated Kershaws using that steel because no matter what I do (Tuf-Cloth, mineral oil, clean it every day, etc) every time I took one out my case to use there were new rust spots on it.
 
Always been disappointed with CRKT and Cold Steel folders. Cold Steel has made some great blade shapes, but they seem cheaply constructed.
 
I agree that CRKT is a good example of this... They bring in talented designers and interesting designs that you can't find anywhere else, and then they crappify it to the point that it's no longer appealing.
 
Gadfly22 said:
Amen. And add to the blade centering (that can at least be adjusted) a very thin liner that -- brand new, out of the box -- is already halfway across the tang. Very disappointing.
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Yup I love the vantages but my vantage force pro liner lock engages all the way across and touches the other liner:(, its OK I guess, no blade play, but just annoys me. Its only been used a month or so
 
SOG, no real model specifically. It's pretty much every knife they make.
 
Such a waste of some finely heat treated S30V on those pros

jvarn81 said:
Yup I love the vantages but my vantage force pro liner lock engages all the way across and touches the other liner:(, its OK I guess, no blade play, but just annoys me. Its only been used a month or so
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res1cue said:
There have been so many knives that I feel like have been innovative and well designed, which have been neutralized by poor materials or poor manufacturing or poor design in other parts of the knives. The two for me that really come to mind are:

-CRKT M21/M16 series: I loved the full hilt design, and the Auto-lawks. With less holes, no serrations, beefier liner, and better steel, it really could have been a winner
Click to expand...

I agree. I really wanted one of the M16 or M21 series, and have one of both now, and they're okay users, but still disappointing in a lot of ways. The M16-14Ti is too thin on one side of the handle to be comfortable (for me, anyway). The titanium side with no liner is probably less than 1/8" thick. The M21 is very slick, almost slippery in the way the aluminum is finished. To me, the clips are not that practical either. (Mine keep flexing/bending from normal carry.)

Tostig said:
I scored a Ti/SG2 blem for a wonderful price and I will stake my pickup trucks pink slip on that knife being one of the best production knives ever built EVER. Its ergonomics are pure perfection , it's blade is the epitome of the perfect slicer. It's execution in Ti is a wonder to behold and then there's the pocket clip that looks like it fell off of Godzillas back !! They have done this on other models too. Perfect knife , aside from the gaudy clip that screams "look at me !!"

:)

Tostig
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Yup. It ain't called the "Bat Clip" for nothin'! :p I bought a regular composite blade JYD that the seller had put a lowrider clip on (made by STR, a member here) just so I could get the clip for my Ti JYDII blem. Turned it into the perfect user, IMHO.

~Chris
 
Agreed - I have one but it took me 2-3 weeks of tweaking it and disassembling it to bend the lock bar before it even came close to locking up properly. When you read their marketing pieces you'd think this knife is bomb proof but the fact is, I have more trust in my Ontario RAT 1 Folder and the RAT 1 locks up like a bank vault while the action and F&F are a notch or two better. Heck, even the blade is centered on the RAT 1 folder. My HEST/F 2.0 can't even say that.

Have you looked at the length of the lock bar contact area on the tang? The tang grind isn't even a 1/4" long. It's a $100 knife to me and only because of the materials.

Shame because it fits the hand really well.

kreole said:
DPX Hest folder (1 & 2) has to make the list.

There was so much hype and excitement from the ESEE folder that got channeled into it, which built up to something huge.

Then came loads of production problems that continued through both iterations.
Click to expand...
 
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