Knuckle bow?

[Jason Fry]

Anybody got any references on how to make a knuckle bow for a saber? Looking specifically at the Ames 1833 or 1840 style. Not a simple D guard, rather than ground with three bars across the knuckles.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

Two options:
1) Start with a flat bar of steel, WI, or brass about 1.5" X.25" and cut it partway down to create the three pieces. Spread out, forge/grind/file/shape to get the guard you want. This looks the best when done right.
2) Use three bars of mild steel and weld them up. Forge/grind/file/shape to the guard you want. This is usually easier, but any poor welds will show a bit.

It helps to draw the guard and knuckle bow on a flat piece of stiff paper or poster board and figure out the arrangement before doing it in steel. The entire guard assembly can usually be formed from one single piece. Depending on your skill level, it is usually best to make it simple with a flat guard and sweeping knuckle guard (second photo) than fancy ( first photo)

A way to figure out the flat shape to form into the 3-D shape is to make a rough mock-up from 1/8" round wire. Weld the pieces to a simple 1/8" thick cross-guard as needed and shape the assembly to get your final look. Don't worry if it isn't perfect, it is just a pattern. Once it is right, cut the wires as needed to flatten out. Push/bend/straighten the wires closer to each other until it will fit on a bar or strip of mild steel or brass. Depending on what you are shaping, it could be as narrow as 1.5" or as wide as 3". Use this to sketch the layout for the assembly on the sheet of mild steel or brass.

 

[Alex Topfer]

were they ever cast? those swords were industrial munitions originally
looks like something you could 3d print with lost wax filament and get someone to cast. then lots of filing

 

[Lorien]

were they ever cast? those swords were industrial munitions originally
looks like something you could 3d print with lost wax filament and get someone to cast. then lots of filing

best idea yet! Lost wax casting is awesome. Anders Hogstrom does it a lot and it's a sweet way to get unique results

 

[Tyson A Wright]

I think Arms & Armor casts at least some of the complex hilts on their swords.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

Yes, they were often cast. It isn't as simple as casting a ring, though.

 

[Tyson A Wright]

I just checked, and my A & A hilts are cast, my Darkwood Armory hilts are welded. These have been used pretty hard (these are blunts used for HEMA sidesword), and both seem to hold up fine. I've never had one of my hilts break, but I have had a few bend quite a bit. I've seen a few hilts break for other people, but it was a mix of cast and welded hilts, so I'd suggest that either approach is probably equally strong.