Kriss, Filippine, pre-WWII

[oregon]

Acquired from, bought right off his person for cash, a Muslim miner near Luzon in 1940. Looks and feels like a serious weapon. Full tang construction. (more pictures in the works)

Is there an internet resource for edged weapons from this neck of the woods?

Sidebar: Filippine indiginous warriors: The main reason why General Pershing wanted the 1911 .45 semi-auto pistol developed. I've heard this, .38 caliber simply wouldn't stop the Muslim warrior, fact or fiction. Something with more stopping power was needed.

All the best,

oregon

 

[knarfeng]

I am unaware of an internet source maybe someone on the asian forum would know?
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=716
I used to have a book on such, but I think it is currently buried in the garage.

Sidebar note: I heard the same story about the development of the .45 auto. It was told in great detail and I have always considered it true. Seems that the .38 revolvers would kill the Moro warriors when they charged, but not before the Moro would reach the American and kill him with the Kriss. The .45 was desired because it would stop the Moro BEFORE he could reach and kill the American.

 

[oregon]

The former owner of the Kriss pronounced it "crease" like grease but with a c and not a g. I have always pronounced it Chris, like the common name of a person sounds. I wonder if there is a correct pronunciation.

Why 4 bends to the Kriss and not less and not more? Always 4.

Thank you kindly for your link to the other forum.

I understand that some of the indiginous Filippines were Muslims. Kind of gives you an idea of what fundamental zeal can do for a warrior.

I have pics of other Filippine weapons and will get them up as this dial-up allows. (I have 4 pics of the Kriss) Thank you for looking.

All the best,

oregon

 

[Gollnick]

Why 4 bends to the Kriss and not less and not more? Always 4.

It's actually seven undulations. It's not always seven, but that's common.

 

[oregon]

I think we agree. However, I'm not saying it clearly. I'm simply counting the indents on one side of the blade.

I was told by the son of the purchaser that the Muslim Kriss always was as shown in the picture. My guess was that this confirguration was based upon their religion. Perhaps this shape springs from makers preference and tradition. But, the fundamental religion of the weapon's owner would be my guess as to the source of the design.

The owner, who was a kid and present during the purchase, claims that the Muslim Kriss is always as shown, irregardless of length.

All the best,

oregon

 

[cerulean]

Mmm... that's not really a kris, even though the blade is wavy. Basically, the base of the blade needs to be asymmetrical and it should have a ganja (or the appearance of one) to classify as a kris. Also, the hilt and guard on your sword are much different than what is found on a kris. I don't know much about Filipino weapons though, so hopefully someone can give you more information about what you have.

Here are a couple of good resources: Federico's Moro Swords and another page on Moro Kris. The Ethnographic Edged Weapon Forum at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/ also has more infomation than you could ever possibly want on kris and keris.

 

[Th232]

FWIW, bit more information on what makes a kris/keris here.

Generally useful site for krisses, from what I've seen.

 

[Cougar Allen]

A kris with a wavy blade always has an odd number of waves. A wave is defined each time it turns toward the centerline of the blade. Most kris do not have wavy blades. Someone already pointed out that sword is not a kris....

The story about .38 caliber and "Moros" really belongs in Practical Tactical or possibly the Filipino Combat Arts Forum but while we're here ...

The story is sometimes told in an attempt to prove something about .38 Special, sometimes trying to prove something racial about "Moros." In fact the cartridge was not the .38 Special; it was a significantly less powerful black powder cartridge that turned out to have insufficient stopping power. The opponents who demonstrated that happened to be southern Filipine Muslims but it wouldn't have been sufficient for anyone else either; they are not more bullet-resistant than other groups. Most people consider "Moro" to be an offensive racist word.

 

[oregon]

Mmm... that's not really a kris, even though the blade is wavy. Basically, the base of the blade needs to be asymmetrical and it should have a ganja (or the appearance of one) to classify as a kris. Also, the hilt and guard on your sword are much different than what is found on a kris. I don't know much about Filipino weapons though, so hopefully someone can give you more information about what you have.

Here are a couple of good resources: Federico's Moro Swords and another page on Moro Kris. The Ethnographic Edged Weapon Forum at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/ also has more infomation than you could ever possibly want on kris and keris.

Outstanding! Exactly the resources I was hoping to find. Thank you kindly.

I can relay what I find to my father-in-law (who is technologically challenged, stuck in the quill pen era), the weapon's owner who is now in his eighties, and perhaps I will be able to lay my hands on Robert Cato's book "Moro Swords."

Very, very exciting and enormously helpful. Thank you again.

All the best,

oregon

 

[alejandrino]

I agree. I think "moro" is an offensive word as they prefer muslim, which they are. From what I heard, the muslims would tie a tight bands around their legs and arms before they attacked so as not to lose blood when hit and still have time to use their kris. Not sure how true that is. A .45 slug would take them down.

 

[oregon]

FWIW, bit more information on what makes a kris/keris here.

Generally useful site for krisses, from what I've seen.

Wonderful reference source. Thanks a million.

Ganja = guard crosspiece. With this one key word I've found several sites that are on-point. Terrific.

A new area for me, ethnic weapons, has quite an open end as far as knowledge base goes. I am pleasantly surprised.

All the best,

oregon

 

[oregon]

A kris with a wavy blade always has an odd number of waves. A wave is defined each time it turns toward the centerline of the blade. Most kris do not have wavy blades. Someone already pointed out that sword is not a kris....

Thank you kindly Cougar. I appreciate your help. I have much to learn.

Ganja Iras is a keris blade w/o a ganja.

http://old.blades.free.fr/utilities/glossary.htm

All the best,

oregon

 

[oregon]

I agree. I think "moro" is an offensive word as they prefer muslim, which they are. From what I heard, the muslims would tie a tight bands around their legs and arms before they attacked so as not to lose blood when hit and still have time to use their kris. Not sure how true that is. A .45 slug would take them down.

What a small world this is. Yesterday, after taking many pics of his ethnic weaponry, my father-in-law mentioned this same thing to me. That these muslim warriors would tie off, with cloth sashes, parts of their bleeding bodies in order to continue combat.

It is rewarding to me to be able in some small way to put a ethnic weapon knowledge base at the disposal of my father-in-law. He was with his much loved father when the weapons were acquired directly from their owners in 1940.

Thank you very much.

All the best,

oregon

 

[oregon]

Please accept my most humble apologies for using this term. I was completely ignorant of its racist content. It was not my intent to offend anyone.

Thank you Cougar for pointing this out to me. Much appreciated.

All the best,

oregon

 

[Azrael31]

Sidebar: Moros: The main reason why General Pershing wanted the 1911 .45 semi-auto pistol developed. I've heard this, .38 caliber simply wouldn't stop the Moro warrior, fact or fiction. Something with more stopping power was needed.

I just read about this in one of my books the other day. I learned the muslims wrapped themselves tightly in bamboo and wore it like armor. On top of this they used drugs before they fought which Im assuming dulled their senses a bit and with the armor enabled them to keep moving after being shot. The 1911 was designed because the weapon it was to replace did not have sufficient stopping power, so even if it was not solely because of the muslims im sure it was related.